BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Is Moriarty dead?

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 8, 2012 12:44 pm

And if not, how did he fake it?

**Posted by kazza474** February 9, 2012 6:29 am

Yes, I believe he is dead.
Even in the original, he dies.
There are plenty more villains to come along. And frankly to have him 'not dead' after doing so with Sherlock would be too corny.
I don't think 'Mofftiss' will fall into that trap at all. It's too cheap, too predictable and very unimaginative.

**Posted by Ceto** February 9, 2012 4:31 pm

I really would be kind of disappointed if Moriarty don't come back, he is such a great villain! But i must agree with kazza, it would be kind of weird if he survived.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** February 10, 2012 1:52 pm

I did hear someone say that there wasn't enough "brain spatterage" for him to have shot himself. I guess forensically this could be true but it could just be a little mistake on the part of the make up people on the show...

I also heard that if Moriarty was dead, why would Sherlock have to tell John on the phone that he was a fake and all that...he could have just told him the truth and explained that he'd have to go away for a while and lie low so people believed he was dead. I mean, he could have trusted John not to tell anyone. So maybe he knew Moriarty was alive and listening in on his conversation whilst pretending to be dead on the floor.

I'm kind of being devil's advocate here, I'm not saying I believe these theories or not but...they're out there!

**Posted by Ceto** February 11, 2012 9:48 am

The part with Sherlock telling John he is a fake has puzzled me for a while to. I can't find any logical explanation to why he had to say all that maybe it just was to make the whole scene more dramatic.

**Posted by kazza474** February 11, 2012 10:22 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
I did hear someone say that there wasn't enough "brain spatterage" for him to have shot himself. I guess forensically this could be true but it could just be a little mistake on the part of the make up people on the show...

I also heard that if Moriarty was dead, why would Sherlock have to tell John on the phone that he was a fake and all that...he could have just told him the truth and explained that he'd have to go away for a while and lie low so people believed he was dead. I mean, he could have trusted John not to tell anyone. So maybe he knew Moriarty was alive and listening in on his conversation whilst pretending to be dead on the floor.

I'm kind of being devil's advocate here, I'm not saying I believe these theories or not but...they're out there!

I think too many people watch crime scene shows, lol.
I do recall an interview with Andrew Scott not long after this one and he said it was time to move on as great as it was & how he didn't want to be typecast into any type of role.

I really 100% believe they won't change the essence of the originals & have Moriarty back just for ratings. They don't need to.
They have the likes of Moran (Moriarty's right hand man who will be after revenge) to look forward to yet.

**Posted by kazza474** February 13, 2012 2:20 pm

OK, I have read a few times people saying things about Moriarty's brother. I couldn't remember much about that from the original but someone was going on about the fact that there is a Jim and a James Moriarty. I thought they were confused because Jim is short for James anyway.
I'm watching Scandal with the narration and they were talking how Conan Doyle occasionally forgot names as in he called Watson James rather than John for a whole episode. They then went on to say 'but we haven't address the fact that Moriarty has a brother with the same Christian name'. someone went 'hmm'. There was someone saying 'maybe' in among that chatter too. Then Moffat (I think it is) says 'but we are on the case! ' Then someone giggles.

So, maybe we shall see JAMES Moriarty someday after all.

Hmmmmm.

Incidently, at this point does anyone else have the narrated versions of Scandal & Baskerville?
I caught them off another site where someone posted the files for them & I downloaded asap. It seems they have gone from there now so I am not sure if it was 'legal' to share like that. Nor do I know HOW to post or send it to anyone. If someone wants to send me a private message telling me how to do it, I could pass it on. The trick then is to watch the movie without sound & have the sound file running instead.

Last edited by kazza474 (February 13, 2012 2:22 pm)

**Posted by AreYouTryingToDeduceMe** August 3, 2012 11:55 am

In reply to Kazza and this thread, I saw something on tumblr I thought was too interesting not to share;

...could this work? D:

**Posted by kazza474** August 3, 2012 12:01 pm

No, that is just too bizarre & outlandish. The Moriarty we saw had all the traits he should have had. There is no other one,lol.

**Posted by Davina** August 3, 2012 12:04 pm

Is Arwel Jones the real Moriarty?

**Posted by kazza474** August 3, 2012 12:17 pm

Davina wrote:
Is Arwel Jones the real Moriarty?

lol!
The man is a saint; no wayyyyyyy.
I think.

**Posted by Lupin** August 3, 2012 8:49 pm

I find it hard to believe both Sherlock and Moriarty faked their suicides. If so, then what was the point of the whole episode?

**Posted by Ivy** August 14, 2012 9:19 am

I first thought he isn't dead and I always asked myself why hasn't Sherlock checked if he's dead or not. Then I thought he must be dead, otherwise he would have seen that Sherlock faked his dead, but then I thought Sherlock didn't know that Moriarty would kill himself, so he must have include the fact, that Moriarty stays alive, in his plan.

So you see, I'm not 100% sure!

**Posted by SusiGo** August 14, 2012 9:32 am

I'm sure that Moriarty's dead because I can't imagine that Moffat would in such a crucial point deviate from the canon. Moreover, I think his part in the story is complete and finished and there will be one or more other villains to look forward to. To resurrect two characters would be a bit too much

**Posted by veecee** August 14, 2012 7:18 pm

I weigh in on the "dead" side, largely for the same reasons, Susi.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** August 18, 2012 9:11 pm

A lot of people resurect him in roleplays, because he's just too much of a good character not to have some fun with...but in reality, I think, definitely dead. YOU CAN'T FAKE SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE HEAD! It's pretty hard.

As for the Richard Brook is real person hired by Moriarty...I've read a theory (and there's one on here in another thread), about Moriarty having a twin brother, and indeed we're doing an RP on my RP forum which is exactly that - Richard Brook is Moriarty's twin brother, but yeah, I don't actually believe they'll do that in the series, a bit too far fetched. He's basically just dead.

**Posted by saturnR** September 4, 2012 11:10 am

Maybe they could keep the character alive through flashbacks. I think he would definitely appear in the first episode of series 3 just coz he's so important to Sherlock's explanation of why he faked his death, etc... After that, not sure what they could do with him. He would have a lot of associates, if his associates feature in future episodes, they might be able to allude to him. Unfortunately, don't see him onscreen past the first episode as any further reference would be mostly verbal - it's a shame, Andrew Scott is so good as Moriarty.

By the way, the "piss off" logo is the best I've seen in a long time.

Last edited by saturnR (September 4, 2012 11:26 am)

**Posted by Banbha** September 4, 2012 11:13 am

saturnR wrote:
Maybe they could keep the character alive through flashbacks. I think he would definitely appear in the first episode of series 3 just coz he's so important to Sherlock's explanation of why he faked his death, etc... After that, not sure what they could do with him. He would have a lot of associates, if his associates feature in future episodes, they might be able to allude to him. Unfortunately, don't see him onscreen past the first episode as any further reference would be mostly verbal - it's a shame, Andrew Scott is so good as Moriarty.

I think he's (sadly) dead. But I do think--I hope--there will be flashbacks. Who knows though?

**Posted by harleyq** November 3, 2012 5:19 pm

I heard Moffat and Gatiss both say he was dead, so I think that's a safe assessment. And, they don't seem like the type to go back on their word. Besides, as great as Andrew was, I'm ready to move on from Moriarty.

**Posted by besleybean** November 3, 2012 6:04 pm

I'm not ready to move on, but I know we have to and think we have!