BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Official BBC releases - Series 4 - The Game is On!

**Posted by ewige** December 10, 2016 10:43 am

This.

Look at his hair.

AO3 · **Posted by GimmeCat** December 10, 2016 10:44 am

We're looking at Sherlock's reflection in the hallway mirror, as opposed to just looking at him directly. It seems an odd choice.

**Posted by ukaunz** December 10, 2016 10:47 am

Just being creative with the shot, or perhaps showing Sherlock reflecting on the way he is described in the joke?

Although he obviously doesn't see himself that way, because he decides the joke isn't about him/doesn't get it!

Last edited by ukaunz (December 10, 2016 10:54 am)

**Posted by Liberty** December 10, 2016 11:10 am

Thanks for the transcript and for the video link! I think Lestrade is saying "he needs winding" (i.e. like a baby), although "needs" is very hard to hear. And yes, I agree that they're talking about Sherlock.

I imagine this clip is from pretty early on in Ep1.

I think the banter is OK, but I'm not a big fan of the idea of infantilised Sherlock. I suppose he did set himself up for it in TSOT, by suggesting that John and Mary had been parenting him. I does make me cringe a little. I do think there is a childish side of Sherlock, that his emotional development seems a bit delayed in some ways, but he certainly doesn't need looking after like a baby.

It is a funny scene though, I have to admit! And a nice feeling of things being back to normal, even though they will have changed (and normality won't last!).

Last edited by Liberty (December 10, 2016 11:11 am)

**Posted by Vhanja** December 10, 2016 11:17 am

As jokes go, I think this was a very harmless and funny one. I think they have both said things to each other in previous episodes that were much more mean than this. This is clearly a light-hearted joke, the kind of banter I would love to see more of (but, of course, it should go the other way too).

**Posted by ukaunz** December 10, 2016 11:30 am

Liberty wrote:
Thanks for the transcript and for the video link! I think Lestrade is saying "he needs winding" (i.e. like a baby), although "needs" is very hard to hear. And yes, I agree that they're talking about Sherlock.

Thanks Liberty, I think you're right

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 10, 2016 12:21 pm

I'm also in two minds about the banter... in a way it was funny... but I suppose it's always funnier if the person actually follows.

It's the kind of sarcastic humour my friends has but everyone including the person is adding in on it.

But who knows... maybe this is all in Sherlocks own head.

**Posted by ukaunz** December 10, 2016 12:32 pm

It's pretty likely Sherlock was giving John and Greg a hard time moments before this clip started and they're just getting their revenge on him

I'm sure to Steven and Mark this kind of banter is normal between friends. And no one doubts the three characters are very good friends.

**Posted by Liberty** December 10, 2016 12:43 pm

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:
I'm also in two minds about the banter... in a way it was funny... but I suppose it's always funnier if the person actually follows.

It's the kind of sarcastic humour my friends has but everyone including the person is adding in on it.

But who knows... maybe this is all in Sherlocks own head.

You know, I've been wondering if it's in his head too. It occurred to me that the clip we saw from TAB before it aired was in Sherlock's head. And funnily enough the clip from TSOT that was shown at a con (I think) was also in his head (the bit where John asks him to be best man - we actually see it during the best man's speech, when Sherlock is talking about/remembering it). I'm mentioning these, because I don't know of any other clips that were aired in advance! And I think it would be just like them to mislead us in this way.

It does seem unlikely that Sherlock would be making fun of himself in his mind palace - or does it? He kind of does it in TAB. Or it could be wishful thinking - that he wants to return to those days of easy banter.

**Posted by SusiGo** December 10, 2016 1:16 pm

I agree, Liberty. It would tie in with how Sherlock sees himself - think of the insecure boy in front of Mycroft's big desk or of Mycroft towering over him. His self-esteem is very low and in series 3 and TAB we finally got to see that.

It is not the banter as such that disturbs me but the fact that Sherlock is left out. His questions are not answered. They more or less ignore him as if he was not there.

**Posted by Vhanja** December 10, 2016 1:24 pm

I see what you mean, Susi. Of course, we don't have the context for this joke, but just based on that little clip, it seems to me to be one of those scenes that are meant to be taken as a light-hearted joke. It's not meant to be analyzed too much or be taken too seriously.

And I don't think Sherlock minds too much. In general, he functions on a level that goes above everybody's heads all the time, and he makes fun of them for it. ("How is it like in your funny, little heads, it must be so boring?") So it goes both ways. (At least John and Lestrade aren't making fun of Sherlock for not getting the joke).

**Posted by Vhanja** December 10, 2016 1:54 pm

Double post, but this...

makes it looks as if Culverton Smith is John's father or something. Of course, that doesn't make sense, because John would've recognized him. That is, if he grew up with his father, we don't really know anything about his childhood?

Just curious why they look so similar.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 10, 2016 1:58 pm

Or maybe there's a 'mirror' thing going on?

But I do see the similarities

**Posted by Liberty** December 10, 2016 2:12 pm

It's interesting because I don't think Toby and Martin are at all alike (maybe very superficially, colouring, height, etc). But I agree that they look similar here, and it's interesting that they've given them such similar hair styles and colours. I hadn't thought of Culverton being John's dad ... maybe? I'm not sure he needs a serial killer (or whatever Culverton turns out to be) as a father when he's already got an assassin for a wife! And yes, John's childhood is very open for speculation. We haven't met a single member, and only really know about Harry. (Will she feature then?)

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 10, 2016 8:19 pm

THIS IS NOT A DRILL. WE HAVE A SECOND TRAILER!!!

And... I'm literally hyperventilating. I can barely type!

**Posted by Vhanja** December 10, 2016 8:22 pm

Omg, wow! I don't know what to say. This is... I...

Nope. No words.

**Posted by Vhanja** December 10, 2016 8:27 pm

But who is he saying it to? John and Mycroft are behind him. But it looks like he is looking in a mirror, is he saying it to himself?

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 10, 2016 8:28 pm

He did. And I am so not okay.

I'm still shaking, still hyperventilating. WTF

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 10, 2016 8:29 pm

I have this horrible idea about that scene... and it's making me cry

**Posted by ewige** December 10, 2016 8:31 pm

I am definitely taking Mondays off.

The burning house.
John in the water pit.
Sherlock with a gun.

"I love you".

Oh
My
God