BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / John Watson in S4

**Posted by Vhanja** September 7, 2015 12:10 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
I think this would be a very dangerous thing to do. It would be dark, definitely, but I'm not sure you can do something like this in a show that only gives you three new episodes every two or now even three years. The show is about a detective and his blogger, the chemistry between Benedict and Martin as Sherlock and John is so vital to the show... It might work for some people to go through that much hurt, but I can definitely say that I'm in urgent need of some comfort after S3.

I agree with this. I think we have already seen that breach in S3, especially in TEH. Or, at least, I hope so.

**Posted by Liberty** September 7, 2015 3:34 pm

Me too . They have played with the idea, but almost just to show that it doesn't work, and they are inevitably drawn together. Of course, they did go through a huge separation between S2 and S3 - during that time, Sherlock must have had lots of exciting adventures that would have made great stories, but we weren't shown any of that . Because it wasn't in the original stories, yes, but Moftiss do have a habit of "correcting" or embellishing the originals and could easily have put in a Sherlock-only case or adventure if they'd wanted to. They chose not to. Even right at the end of TRF, we're shown the two of them almost together (John talking to Sherlock, Sherlock watching him). They've promised that the show is about Sherlock and John as a pair, and I do believe them. So there could be a separation for an episode, I think, or between episodes (or series), but not for a whole series, in my opinion. (To be honest, I'd be really disappointed if they did do that).

You do have a good point, though, Raven. It would certainly be dark, and it would be possible for them to do it between series', rather than over the course of a series.

Maybe wishful thinking, but I do think John will move back in. I don't think Mary or a child will come with him.

Last edited by Liberty (September 7, 2015 3:35 pm)

**Posted by Yitzock** September 7, 2015 3:39 pm

I would agree that something between them would be very dark and painful emotionally, which is something we've been hinted at happening down the road, but I think it would be a bit of a problem. It would be dark, but would it really be "The Sherlock and John Show" if that were to happen. In a different way, yes, maybe, but they wouldn't be working together, and from what we've seen so far it's that no matter what happens they come back to working together. That's what everyone likes. So I would agree that something like that couldn't last an entire series. Unless that's how they intend to shock us all.

Last edited by Yitzock (September 7, 2015 3:40 pm)

**Posted by Dorothy83** September 7, 2015 3:50 pm

I believe there is no way that a rift that deep would be believable, because John would never do anything to hurt or betray Sherlock that much that he stops liking him or wanting to work/spend time with him, and also nothing Sherlock does can cause John to stop liking him and wanting to work/spend time with him.

**Posted by Vhanja** September 7, 2015 6:27 pm

One possible way they could create such a rift would perhaps be if Sherlock knew something about Mary (let's say she is part of Moriarty's side or something like that), and he was forced to kill her (or have her killed) before he could inform John about all the facts. That would mean John would have to watch his best friend killing his wife and - even worse - his unborn child.

**Posted by Yitzock** September 7, 2015 6:32 pm

Assuming the baby isnt' born before that happens. But yes, that would definitely cause a rift between them. But the thing is, would it be too unbelievable if somehow they were able to overcome it? I don't know whether that could be in any way forgiveable. Although they might be able to come up with something for them to get back together.

Last edited by Yitzock (September 7, 2015 6:32 pm)

**Posted by Vhanja** September 7, 2015 6:48 pm

It was something that popped up in my head that could - perhaps - make a bigger rift between them. But I doubt they would go for something like that, it sounds a bit too melodramatic.

**Posted by Yitzock** September 7, 2015 6:54 pm

Just a bit maybe.

After all this speculating we've done, I'm starting to wonder whether we've come up with everything that's too terrible for the writers to even go there, and what we're going to get is now going to be surprisingly easy to handle. ha ha

**Posted by Vhanja** September 7, 2015 7:00 pm

See, there's a good thing to all this speculation.

**Posted by Yitzock** September 7, 2015 7:05 pm

lol Perhaps, there is!
Although on the flip side we could have our souls destroyed all the same because we couldn't possibly think of the true pain that they can inflict on us.

**Posted by Vhanja** September 7, 2015 7:20 pm

I'm hoping for that!

**Posted by Yitzock** September 7, 2015 7:24 pm

I'm honestly not sure what I'm hoping for. lol I'm curious what could be in store, but at the same time I'm not the biggest enjoyer of pain. Although as long as it's well-written it doesn't really matter.

**Posted by Dorothy83** September 7, 2015 10:17 pm

Yitzock wrote:
Assuming the baby isnt' born before that happens. But yes, that would definitely cause a rift between them. But the thing is, would it be too unbelievable if somehow they were able to overcome it? I don't know whether that could be in any way forgiveable. Although they might be able to come up with something for them to get back together.

Am I the only one who thinks John would forgive this? He knows Sherlock wouldn't just up and kill his wife and unborn child. He knows Sherlock promised to be there for them. Once Sherlock explained why he had to do it John would understand he didn't have a choice and as heartbroken as he would be he totally would forgive Sherlock...

**Posted by Vhanja** September 7, 2015 10:20 pm

Yeah, I think he would have forgiven him too. He would have known that Sherlock would have had a good reason for such an extreme action. So either it wouldn't work because it would never be much of a rift drama at all, or it would work but then it would be too melodramatic. ;)

**Posted by tonnaree** December 1, 2016 3:10 pm

This is one of those "not sure where to put it" pieces of speculation but I think the John Watson thread is most right.

Lately I can't stop thinking about the fact that Ella is going to appear in S4. She may have only been in two scenes in two previous episodes, but those were both pivotal moments for John. I think that her scene in S4 will be very important. Would anyone care to speculate with me?

I'm almost certain that the scene will occur like all her others, in the pre-credits of an episode. Which episode do we think she'll show up in?
What will John be talking about? I'm leaning toward something about Mary.
Do we think Ella might turn up in more than one scene this time?

**Posted by Vhanja** December 1, 2016 3:12 pm

Perhaps he will go to her if Mary and/or the baby dies?

**Posted by tonnaree** December 1, 2016 3:14 pm

That would certainly make sense.

I've also wondered if we could get a flashback to some previous session with Ella. Perhaps one that took place during the two years Sherlock was gone. Or maybe right after Sherlock returned.

**Posted by Liberty** December 1, 2016 6:54 pm

I was thinking along the same lines: flashback or bereavement. They could even open an episode in that way, the way they did with TRF (I know that wasn't strictly Moftiss as writers, but still, I thought it was very effective and love that episode). It would be similar to the way the beginning of HLV harked back to the beginning of ASIP.

They might be really naughty and have him clearly taking about a death, but not make it clear who he is talking about. "She" could be Mary, the baby, or Mrs Hudson ... or he may not mention the gender.

But I do think Ella's presence is probably bad news for John. Even if it's just a flashback, I assume it will spell doom and gloom in the present.