The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

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Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady
May 4, 2016 6:49 pm
#401

But the real Richard DID have scoliosis 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

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#IbelieveInSeries5
 
Posted by Liberty
May 4, 2016 7:12 pm
#402

Yes, but I don't think he had kyphosis (or not pronounced anyway).  The play and the photos of Benedict show kyphosis rather than scoliosis (or both), I think.

Last edited by Liberty (May 4, 2016 7:13 pm)

 
Posted by nakahara
May 5, 2016 11:04 am
#403

besleybean wrote:

(And I say this as a Yorkist)
At the end of the day, he's the prime suspect in murdering 2 young boys.

Josephine Tey in her "Daughter of Time" has another opinion on the matter:

‘Know what I find the convincing thing in the case for Henry’s guilt?’

‘What?’

‘The mystery.’

‘Mystery?’

‘The mysteriousness. The hush-hush. The hole-and-corner stuff.’

‘Because it is in character, you mean?’

‘No, no; nothing as subtle as that. Don’t you see: Richard had no need of any mystery; but Henry’s whole case depended on the boys’ end being mysterious. No one has ever been able to think up a reason for such a hole-and-corner method as Richard was supposed to have used. It was a quite mad way to do it. He couldn’t hope to get away with it. Sooner or later he was going to have to account for the boys not being there. As far as he knew he had a long reign in front of him. No one has ever been able to think why he should have chosen so difficult and dangerous a way when he had so many simpler methods at hand. He had only to have the boys suffocated, and let them lie in state while the whole of London walked by and wept over two young things dead before their time of fever. That is the way he would have done it, too. Goodness, the whole point of Richard’s killing the boys was to prevent any rising in their favour, and to get any benefit from the murder the fact of their deaths would have to be made public, and as soon as possible. It would defeat the whole plan if people didn’t know that they were dead. But Henry, now. Henry had to find a way to push them out of sight. Henry had to be mysterious. Henry had to hide the facts of when and how they died. Henry’s whole case depended on no one’s knowing what exactly happened to the boys.’


And this one:

As he was about to shut the senior of the two educators his eye fell on the beginning of Henry VII’s reign, and he read: ‘It was the settled and considered policy of the Tudors to rid themselves of all rivals to the throne, more especially those heirs of York who remained alive on the succession of Henry VII. In this they were successful, although it was left to Henry VIII to get rid of the last of them.’

He stared at this bald announcement. This placid acceptance of wholesale murder. This simple acknowledgement of a process of family elimination.

Richard III had been credited with the elimination of two nephews, and his name was a synonym for evil. But Henry VII, whose ’settled and considered policy’ was to eliminate a whole family was regarded as a shrewd and far-seeing monarch. Not very lovable perhaps, but constructive and painstaking, and very successful withal.

Grant gave up. History was something that he would never understand.

 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by nakahara
May 5, 2016 11:07 am
#404

Liberty wrote:

Yes, but I don't think he had kyphosis (or not pronounced anyway).  The play and the photos of Benedict show kyphosis rather than scoliosis (or both), I think.

His deformity is exaggerated in stride with Shakespeare´s potrayal of Richard III whose goal was to portray not merely a flawed human being, but kind of a monster (as Tudor propaganda portrayed him) and this kind of deformation helped him to cement this idea in people´s minds. That´s why it´s not very realistic, but it´s faithful to Shakespeare´s vision of the character, I guess.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by Liberty
May 5, 2016 6:26 pm
#405

Oh yes, and that's what I meant by "the play" ... it would be kind of odd to play him without a physical deformity (although I'm sure it could be done). But as the discovery of his skeleton is quite recent, I do wonder if it has influenced the production, hence having it not so noticeable clothed in active scenes, but striking in that unclothed scene where Richard talks about it. 

 
Posted by SusiGo
May 8, 2016 8:35 pm
#406

Yesterday I watched the first part and it was amazing. Very clever editing of the plays to make everything more coherent and understandable without getting too simple. The actors are excellent, especially Sophie Okonedo. Tom Sturridge made the best of a very unrewarding part, i.e. Henry VI. And while there are only few female parts those were cast and acted wonderfully: Sophie Okonedo as Queen Margaret, Sally Hawkins as Duchess of Gloucester, and Laura Frances-Morgan as Joan of Arc (although some people were wondering why she had a Northern English accent). 

And the "cliffhanger" was just great. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by besleybean
May 8, 2016 8:39 pm
#407

Yes, I thought they were all good, including Tom.
Great to get the glimpse of Richard at the end.
Yes, I wondered about Joan's accent, too
I thought the episode brilliantly showed how well a play can be filmed...by going between the English and French camps, it really built up the tension to great effect.
Can't wait to see next week's.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady
May 8, 2016 8:45 pm
#408

Will there be re-runs? I have a bit of a problem on Saturday (and I understand Ben is already appearing in that episode...) 

I have to watch the Eurovision and support my friends from when I worked with the Irish (provided they make the final, fingers crossed!)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

Tumblr[/url] I [url=http://archiveofourown.org/users/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady/pseuds/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady]AO3
#IbelieveInSeries5
 
Posted by SusiGo
May 8, 2016 8:47 pm
#409

It should be on iPlayer for some weeks. 

I am not sure if it was Benedict as Richard at the end but the way they introduced the character was amazing. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by besleybean
May 8, 2016 8:49 pm
#410

Yes, I'm not sue it was Benedict either...but I still gave a squee!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by nakahara
May 8, 2016 8:58 pm
#411



-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by SusiGo
May 8, 2016 8:59 pm
#412

I know he is a villain but still - thud. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by besleybean
May 8, 2016 9:00 pm
#413

Phwoar!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady
May 8, 2016 9:40 pm
#414

I'll have to find a way to make the Iplayer work then! Thanks for the hint!

And WOW. He looks amazing!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

Tumblr[/url] I [url=http://archiveofourown.org/users/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady/pseuds/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady]AO3
#IbelieveInSeries5
 
Posted by miriel68
May 9, 2016 7:45 am
#415

besleybean wrote:

Yes, I'm not sue it was Benedict either...but I still gave a squee!

No, it wasn't Benedict, obviously (far too short, don't you think?), but the boy's father twitted somewhere how thrilled his son was to do this scene and how Benedict helped him with it, showing how he should walked as a cripple.
 

 
Posted by besleybean
May 9, 2016 3:33 pm
#416

Bless.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by nakahara
May 10, 2016 6:54 am
#417



-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by SusiGo
May 10, 2016 6:55 am
#418

Heavens, you should have posted a warning! 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by besleybean
May 10, 2016 7:12 am
#419

F.....g h..l!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 
Posted by gently69
May 10, 2016 7:38 am
#420

Did I mention already HOW I am looking forward to that performance???


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 


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