BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Doctor Who

**Posted by Liberty** March 8, 2016 7:15 am

I read about him (inadvertently?) re-using the "It's raining, it's pouring .." line from Jekyll. I suppose it could just be a bad memory!

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 8, 2016 8:48 am

Well, he's a professional, so if he does indeed suffer from bad memory and it's important to him to not use the same lines over and over again (or to use lines from other writers), then he should just double-check (or pay someone else to double-check his writing...).
My guess is that he either doesn't care or, more likely, that he's doing it on purpose.

**Posted by Whisky** March 8, 2016 6:16 pm

Yesterday I watched Dr. Who and realised for the first time that a line sounded very familiar. Can't name the episode though. It was definitely close enough to recognize the Sherlock ressemblance. So he is copying both ways, if I get it right?
Tbh, I think that's kind of normal. I wouldn't be able to keep apart all shows in m head. But yes, of course he could let s.o. check it.

Dr. Who is on TV here in Germany at the moment. Evenings, twice a week, 20.15, EinsFestival. If anybody didn't knew anyway :-) And I found someone who is kind enough to share some DVDs with me. I'm so happy to be able to catch up a bit now and be able to take part in this thread finally... :D

Last edited by Whisky (March 8, 2016 6:22 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** March 8, 2016 6:35 pm

Welcome to the thread, Whisky! And yes, I suppose it is normal, in that Moffat is writing for TV, and there must be an awful lot of writing (not like doing a film screenplay every couple of years) - bound to be some repetition. Especially with vaguely similar characters. (I'm assuming you were watching a Moffat episode!).

There's some (very, very tentatively!) possibly hopeful news on Peter Capaldi:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-03-07/peter-capaldi-ive-been-asked-to-stay-on-in-doctor-who-after-steven-moffat-leaves

I would love him to stay. I think it would be really interesting to see him with a new writer.

Last edited by Liberty (March 8, 2016 6:38 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** March 8, 2016 6:43 pm

He was on R2 today, being equally charming and diplomatic!

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 9, 2016 6:00 am

Welcome, Whisky! So where are you with DW right now? EinsFestival started with S5 and Matt Smith, did you start with Chris Eccleston?
And well, I still think Moffat is copying - or you could also say referencing, sounds a bit more positive - himself on purpose. It's probably a matter of taste whether one likes this or not. Like I said, in the beginning I thought it was kind of charming, but after several seasons it's getting boring.

Liberty, thanks for that link. I'm not sure about Capaldi staying when Chibnall takes over though. Might be interesting, might also mean that Chibnall will be a bit restricted in his writing and his general concept for the show. But since David Tennant left when RTD left, it might be nice to see Capaldi take another route and stay when a new showrunner takes over.

Last edited by SolarSystem (March 9, 2016 6:05 am)

**Posted by Davina** March 9, 2016 9:53 am

I don't mind the occasional referencing but prefer more subtle Easter eggs. To me, reusing lines again and again is sloppy and lazy writing. There...I've said it.

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 9, 2016 10:16 am

I totally agree with you.

**Posted by besleybean** March 9, 2016 5:18 pm

I am loathe to say it...but I have to agree.

**Posted by Davina** March 10, 2016 10:09 pm

Sadly, when I compare some of the writing to the very best that TV writers can offer (I could give you a reasonably long list of those shows I regard as very strongly written) it falls below that which I would expect or hope for. I do not take pleasure in saying this but I do feel it is true.

**Posted by Lola Red** March 11, 2016 9:20 am

The writing is quite varied and sometimes a little bit hit and miss with DW (no wonder if you look at the production speed, there is little time to double-check anything or do something else if something does not quite work), but for me at least, the germs are worth the moments where I feel they did not quite hit the mark.

**Posted by besleybean** March 11, 2016 5:01 pm

I hope they never hit Mark! Tee Hee.

**Posted by Liberty** March 11, 2016 5:53 pm

I think it has been hit and miss all along, to be honest. I barely watched it in the '80s, and so have quite low expectations. I think I'm still drawn to it partly through sentiment: I loved it as a child, and I loved watching the reboot with my own child. I particularly enjoyed the last series! I thought Heaven Sent was outstanding, and my favourite episode ever. I do have some issues with the writing now and then which I've mentioned before, but I don't really watch much of that type of show (children/family) so don't have a lot to compare it to.

Having said that, I'm watching mainly for Peter Capaldi now. When he leaves, it will depend on the writer and the new Doctor, and there's no guarantee that I'll continue unless they're pretty good.

Last edited by Liberty (March 11, 2016 5:55 pm)

**Posted by ukaunz** March 14, 2016 1:13 am

I just finished watching "A Good Man Goes to War" and I thought the writing was brilliant. I guess I'm still at the stage of thinking Stephen Moffat is very clever and enjoying it all, even the lesser episodes. Anyway, I was spoiled for the big reveal about River Song ages ago, and would love to know what it was like for those who watched it when it was first aired, finding out who she really is. I reckon I wouldn't have seen it coming at all. The whole thing with Amy having a baby like that would have been a shock too. What was it like, for those who weren't spoiled?

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 14, 2016 7:25 am

I think we talked about this in this thread at one point, in spoiler tags actually. I didn't see it coming at all, although I guess at one point we all suspected that something strange was going on with her. But I never would have thought it would be this. I did indeed have an OMG moment. I'm still determined to go back and watch all the episodes with Matt Smith again, because I suspect that now that I know what's going on with River I might stumble across some obvious plot holes...

**Posted by Liberty** March 14, 2016 8:39 am

I didn't guess it at all, although I'd been trying to! I found the whole story about Amy's pregnancy and baby very, very dark, to be honest - darker than I'd expected in a children's show. It was so sad that Amy never had a relationship with her daughter as a child (I know they were at school together, but it wasn't a mother/daughter relationship). Even when she knows River is her daugher, it can never really be a mother/daughter relationship. Awful for Rory as well (and for River!), of course, but it was Amy's experience that really got to me.

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 15, 2016 5:16 am

It certainly was the biggest revelation in all New Who, but on an emotional level there were things which got to me much more. When Eleven turns up at Amy's doorstep for example (I don't even remember what it was all about, I just remember that I almost cried...). And when Eleven calls Clara on the phone while Twelve is standing there, looking at her. And Ten saying goodbye to Rose, of course. And Ten saying goodbye to Donna, of course, when she didn't recognize him anymore.

Last edited by SolarSystem (March 15, 2016 5:17 am)

**Posted by Liberty** March 15, 2016 8:04 am

Yes, Ten saying goodbye to Donna was heartbreaking. I was also moved by Rory waiting all those years. I think I was just so shocked by the Amy story - I can't imagine what having your child abducted would be like and how it would change you forever. The only positive thing was that Amy quite quickly knew that River survived and was OK. But that meant she also knew that there was no way to get her baby/child back.

**Posted by Jawn** March 26, 2016 6:27 am

What about this episode? Rory and Amy get me emotional in general but gosh this episode made me cry.

And you can't forget one of the saddest moments on Who (even though it feels like everyone does): Donna and Lee. The adorable couple who fell in love and had a family together in an alternate reality, just to not be able to find each other in reality. And because of Donna's memory loss in the finale, even if he hunted her down, she wouldn't remember him.

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 26, 2016 11:21 pm

True, Jawn, those moments are very moving indeed. That episode with Rory and Amy is probably one of the best in the whole Matt Smith era. Almost right up there with "Vincent and the Doctor" which makes me cry everytime.