BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / London Spy

**Posted by Yitzock** December 11, 2015 8:58 pm

there have been a lot of criticizing posts on Tumblr in that vein in addition to the gifsets and general fan excitement and enthusiasm.

Like we've already said here, it's not about any of the characters being condemned for their gayness, it's not so simple and frankly I don't think it really has anything to do with that at all. It was for what they knew and did. And even then I don't think they are condemned for doing that, but that there were outside forces who were not happy with the knowledge that the characters had shared with each other and what they had found out.

I don't think the show is reinforcing any stereotypes about gay men or their relationships not lasting or whatever. Danny doesn't get HIV because he was being "reckless" or unsafe or anything. We are given information to the contrary of Alex and Danny's relationship not lasting - I think it would have lasted longer if it weren't for those who wanted Alex dead.

**Posted by besleybean** December 11, 2015 9:04 pm

Quite so.

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 9:12 am

I am thinking of watching this tomorrow with my dad when he comes over for his weekly visit. It's become a thing we do, he comes to my house and we watch an episode or two of a tv show. We've just finished watching two seasons of The Fall and I'm trying to think of what to watch next. Hope this is a good choice!

**Posted by Harriet** February 29, 2016 9:48 am

I hope so. If he is an arty person, he might enjoy it a lot. Beautiful screenplay, very atmospheric. With London Spy, you need to be able to suspend disbelief, perhaps more than with other shows. If he prefers his thriller with a waterproof plot, or doesn't care for love stories, he might prefer something else.
Did I say I enjoyed it?

Last edited by Harriet (February 29, 2016 9:52 am)

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 11:39 am

He likes arty, not sure about love stories. We'll give it a go, anyway. Thanks Harriet

**Posted by Harriet** February 29, 2016 11:51 am

Let us know how you liked it!

**Posted by Liberty** February 29, 2016 12:04 pm

My adult son and I watched it together and it made good intergenerational viewing! We loved discussing our theories about it in between episodes. It does have some sexual content, which certainly wasn't a problem for us, but I know some people aren't keen on watching sex scenes with their children/parents so thought I'd mention it. I'm not a huge fan of love/romance stories, but I was totally drawn into the love story in this show - it was unusual and very well done.

(OT for this thread, but another series we really enjoyed watching together was Better Call Saul. A new series has just started but you'd need to catch up with the old one first if you haven't seen that).

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 12:14 pm

That's good to hear Liberty, I must admit I had a slight hesitation about the possible love scenes. The Fall had a few intimate moments but it was fine, so I'm sure this will be too. It feels so immature to even be thinking about being embarrassed by it!

What I have seen of Better Call Saul looks pretty good, but we love our UK-based dramas

**Posted by Harriet** February 29, 2016 12:20 pm

The scenes are quite explicit, short, few, and relevant for the story - so not just to celebrate the beauty of Ben Whishaw's lower back

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 12:22 pm

Yikes, I just did a search for "London spy nsfw" to get an idea of how explicit... I'm not sure I'm brave enough to watch this with my dad

**Posted by Harriet** February 29, 2016 12:35 pm

Maybe you could ask him to fetch some crisps at that moment?

**Posted by Liberty** February 29, 2016 12:38 pm

It's not immature at all. My son and I seem to be unembarrassable (if that's a word?) in that respect, but I know we're the exception rather than the rule, which is why I mentioned it!

The sex scenes between the two characters are tastefully filmed and an important part of the plot. I wouldn't really call them explicit, but YMMV! Very mild spoilers about the sexual content:

There is also a group sex scene, and references to heavy BDSM activity and auto-erotic asphyxiation, and shots of sex toys. Again, plot-related, and nothing explicit, but maybe enough to make some people uncomfortable watching with their parents .. or make the parents uncomfortable! Definitely worth a couple of moments of mild discomfort to watch such a great show, though!

There is some interesting stuff about relationships between parents and chidren in the show too, which I think makes it more fun to watch together.

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 12:39 pm

@ Harriet

I suppose I should mention the gay sex and see if he has a problem watching it? I know he's not homophobic but he doesn't necessarily want to see it on screen.

Last edited by ukaunz (February 29, 2016 12:41 pm)

**Posted by Harriet** February 29, 2016 12:49 pm

I think the one main sex scene is very beautiful, and what Liberty mentioned are indeed rather references.
I consider myself rather squeamish, and had no bigger issues. In fact, I've seen more disturbing stuff on German Public Broadcasting

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 12:53 pm

I have found the scene which I think you're referring to, and yes it is beautiful and not gratuitous (and quite hot actually). I also found gifs of the group scene... I'll just mention it has gay love scenes and see what he says. I've also got an episode of Happy Valley we can watch instead. Or Hamlet!

**Posted by Yitzock** February 29, 2016 4:58 pm

Best of luck. Whatever happens, I hope you two have a good time.

I have watched things with "gay sex" before with my parents and while in one or two cases (it was the male-male ones, my mum seemed more okay watching female-female in Carol than the male-male in Normal Heart or even the beginning of one in Orphan Black), and despite a couple awkwardness on the two occasions I mentioned in the brackets, it wasn't a huge deal since there were other things in the story.

**Posted by besleybean** February 29, 2016 5:02 pm

Yes, however you watch it, I hope you enjoy it.
I thought it was very good.

**Posted by Harriet** February 29, 2016 8:38 pm

ukaunz wrote:
I have found the scene which I think you're referring to, and yes it is beautiful and not gratuitous (and quite hot actually). I also found gifs of the group scene... I'll just mention it has gay love scenes and see what he says. I've also got an episode of Happy Valley we can watch instead. Or Hamlet!

There were complaints against the BBC for not warning of *gay sex scenes* in the intro.
The BBC had simply informed the audience there will be sex scenes in the after 9 programme.
Complaints were rejected by the Ofcom Authority in charge:
“Our broadcasting rules do not discriminate between scenes involving opposite sex and same sex couples.”

**Posted by besleybean** February 29, 2016 8:44 pm

Well done BBC, you win again!

**Posted by ukaunz** February 29, 2016 8:48 pm

Good point Harriet, and good on the BBC. Maybe I should only warn my dad that there will be sex scenes and leave it at that. I'm sure he'll be cool with it and I'm worrying over nothing