John's evovlement throughout the show

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Posted by nakahara
January 21, 2016 1:31 pm
#241

Vhanja wrote:

Concering the defense of John (a bit over the top language in the last reply of this post, but I do agree with the gist of it):

http://asherlockstudy.tumblr.com/post/137681459552/constantlyfreemaned-mmmaxi

People wish to reduce the show called "Sherlock" to pure John-tale in S4:

http://caitlinisactuallyawritersname.tumblr.com/post/137551691018/oxfordlunch-look-i-want-series-4-to-be-100

but I guess that´s still "not caring for John´s experience and depth" etc.

Of course, once you call a fictional character names, you are also insulting the RL actor who plays him/her... duh.

And here I though that the only people who call John "trash" are his admirers who delight in this part of his personality. I never saw a meta where "John-trash" cliche was not mentioned with some kind of strange fondness and delight....

But what do I know, me, a part of this deathly Cumbercult....
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by Vhanja
January 21, 2016 1:40 pm
#242

Well, as I said, the language of that last one is a bit over the top. But I agree with the main point - sometimes some fans will put Sherlock as the poor victim of the horrible, violent and selfish John. A view I highly disagree with.

I have, luckily, never seen anyone on this forum title John as "trash" or "trashcan", but I see it frequently on Tumblr. It doesn't sit right with me at all, even though I know it's supposedly a term of endearment. 


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Posted by nakahara
January 21, 2016 1:48 pm
#243

Vhanja wrote:

I have, luckily, never seen anyone on this forum title John as "trash" or "trashcan", but I see it frequently on Tumblr. It doesn't sit right with me at all, even though I know it's supposedly a term of endearment. 

I really saw "Trash-John" coming only from people who actually like John. They even had this strange motto of "John Watson is trash, that´s why I like him...." for a while.

People who hate John usually simply state that they hate him.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by Vhanja
January 21, 2016 1:57 pm
#244

nakahara wrote:

I really saw "Trash-John" coming only from people who actually like John. They even had this strange motto of "John Watson is trash, that´s why I like him...." for a while.

People who hate John usually simply state that they hate him.

Yes, that is true. 

Well, I'm a big fan of Martin Freeman's John Watson. I think he is a highly nuanced and interesting character. I don't think Sherlock is the victim of John, and neither do I see him as a "trashcan". That doesn't mean that I find the show John-centric or that I am more critical towards Sherlock than I am towards John. I adore Benedict's Sherlock, it's one of the more interesting tv characters I've seen in years. 

But I do not agree with the idea that poor, little Sherlock is being treated like a baby by the horrible John. Not for a second.


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Posted by nakahara
January 21, 2016 2:09 pm
#245

Vhanja wrote:

But I do not agree with the idea that poor, little Sherlock is being treated like a baby by the horrible John. Not for a second.

Well, that´s true, but it goes both ways - many people are also convinced that poor long-suffering John is a victim of this asshole psychopath Sherlock... can´t help it, I guess.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by Vhanja
January 21, 2016 2:13 pm
#246

nakahara wrote:

Well, that´s true, but it goes both ways - many people are also convinced that poor long-suffering John is a victim of this asshole psychopath Sherlock... can´t help it, I guess.

Well, to me this has evened itself out. I do think that in S1 John was a bit bullied around by Sherlock. And I do think that in S3 John was sometimes a bit unneccessary angry towards Sherlock. S2 was a better equilibrium for them both. I hope they can get back to it.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 
Posted by nakahara
January 21, 2016 2:40 pm
#247

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 
Posted by Vhanja
January 21, 2016 3:01 pm
#248

Well, I guess the fandom like their dramatics just as much as the Holmes brothers.


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Team Hudders!
 
 
Posted by tonnaree
January 21, 2016 4:06 pm
#249

Just a note.  I have frequently referred to myself as "johnlock trash."  As in I am all johnlock all the time.  I see it everywhere and I wallow in it happily.  It's just a bit of fun.  Kind of like the saying "You call me bitch like it's a bad thing"?   You turn something negative into a positive. 


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Posted by Vhanja
January 21, 2016 4:36 pm
#250

I know what you mean. And if it had only been mentioned once with a bit of fun and been done with it, it would've been just fine. But as it is now, I feel they are narrowing Martin Freeman's performance into one word, and that just feels wrong. Because it's much more nuanced than that.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 
Posted by kgreen20
January 21, 2016 8:26 pm
#251

Vhanja wrote:

nakahara wrote:

Well, that´s true, but it goes both ways - many people are also convinced that poor long-suffering John is a victim of this asshole psychopath Sherlock... can´t help it, I guess.

Well, to me this has evened itself out. I do think that in S1 John was a bit bullied around by Sherlock. And I do think that in S3 John was sometimes a bit unneccessary angry towards Sherlock. S2 was a better equilibrium for them both. I hope they can get back to it.

Yeah, me, too!
 

 
Posted by besleybean
January 21, 2016 8:30 pm
#252

This may depend on what happens to Mary and if anyone gets blamed for it...


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Posted by Schmiezi
January 21, 2016 8:52 pm
#253

@besleybean: Sorry to bring this up again but I got really curious. In which scenes after Mary shot John do you think that John looks happy about being together with Mary?


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Posted by besleybean
January 21, 2016 8:55 pm
#254

Well I can't honestly say he looks blissfully happy.
But he could have just waked away from her and didn't.
He's made his choice freely, so I can only assume he wants to.
He chose Mary over anybody else.


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Posted by Schmiezi
January 21, 2016 9:06 pm
#255

besleybean wrote:

Well I can't honestly say he looks blissfully happy.
But he could have just waked away from her and didn't.
He's made his choice freely, so I can only assume he wants to.
He chose Mary over anybody else.

Agreed. But staying with someone is not the same as being happy with someone.

I really wonder how John's character will develope during S4.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 
Posted by besleybean
January 21, 2016 9:07 pm
#256

I'm not sure how it could develop...
I think he's very well written anyway.


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Posted by RavenMorganLeigh
January 21, 2016 11:24 pm
#257

nakahara wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

But I do not agree with the idea that poor, little Sherlock is being treated like a baby by the horrible John. Not for a second.

Well, that´s true, but it goes both ways - many people are also convinced that poor long-suffering John is a victim of this asshole psychopath Sherlock... can´t help it, I guess.

 
That's what I heard for two years-- but I think that was more Fanon wish- fulfillment John.

 
Posted by Mothonthemantel
January 22, 2016 1:57 am
#258

The reason satirical trash John rings true and upsets some people , is probably because Martin Freeman is such a good actor , the writers can give John /Martin whatever ill thought out or outrageous scenes they fancy  , and Martin pulls it off.

John is a man of paradox.  He talks the talk of order and morality and manners , but he walks quite comfortably  amidst chaos and has violent angry outbursts and occasional hypocrytical rudeness.

That's why I love John. Doctor and Soldier.One extreme to the other.

I reckon they could do any of the extreme plotlines fans fantasise,  and MF would make us believe.

I do understand people thinking MF acting is overlooked though , with B.C. as Sherlock and A.S as Moriarty we have  talented scene stealing leads. It's a good thing.


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Posted by SusiGo
February 4, 2016 2:29 pm
#259

This is quite a sad post by yours truly. Wanted to share it, though:

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/138662419331/john-in-teh-four-steps-of-farewell


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by Little Weed
February 4, 2016 3:47 pm
#260

You made me so sad Susi! Why? Why'd you do it?!


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