BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Questions about the English language

**Posted by Yitzock** January 23, 2016 5:40 pm

Yeah, generally we say "last name" here. I used it in my previous post only for consistency with what others had been using so as not to be confusing.

II and III etc. are usually just for monarchy, isn't it?

I know what it's like not to like your name. I went by a shortened version of my name for my entire life, it's used in the family, but it seems childish to me now so when I'm at school I get most people to call me by the full version. It seems more mature to me, and less "girly."

**Posted by besleybean** January 23, 2016 5:56 pm

Similar story here...
I grew up spelling my shortened name as 'Beve'.
Years later I wondered if it is because my sister is 'Anne'!
But then one day I decided I had to be all grown up and mature and spell it properly as 'Bev'...partly because at the time I was rather keen on a guy called 'Kev'!
Having said that, my best Sherlockian pal always calls me 'Bes'(cos of my username)...even though she knows I'm 'Bev'!
But then, that's what my family used to call me and variations of...hence my username.

**Posted by Russell** January 24, 2016 11:42 pm

Yitzock wrote:
II and III etc. are usually just for monarchy, isn't it?

*shrug* Not exactly. Again, I think influenced by the family's cultural lineage or preference with how names got passed down, I've seen it a couple times. Cousin's husband for example, John David Smith III (just an example name), after his father, John David Smith II (or said verbally, 'the Second'), then the original grandfather. Italian family, though, with emphasis on carrying on certain eldest's sons names (like how I said my family did, only at least they creatively varied it). Other than using 'Senior' and 'Junior' and such (and even those probably vary or are unheard of depending on geography!).

**Posted by Yitzock** January 24, 2016 11:52 pm

Well, I suppose there is some usage outside the monarchy, but I was thinking maybe it was more of an upper class or traditional thing.

Speaking of how we write those numbers vs how we say them, apparently in North America the film "The Madness of King George III" was renamed just "The Madness of King George" because they were afraid people would think it was a sequel and wouldn't see it because they hadn't seen the "previous ones." It's funny but also kind of sad in a way.

**Posted by besleybean** January 25, 2016 6:36 am

I blame the education system...although cultural gaps can be quite amusing!

**Posted by Vhanja** January 5, 2017 3:06 pm

Reviving an old thread, but I have a question. I'm going to put it in spoilers because my question is sexually explicit, but I am honestly wondering. (It concerns the term "shagging"):

I always thought "shagging" meant penetrative sex, but I've read in countless Johnlock fics how they said that they "shagged" when they did things like handjobs or blowjobs. Could someone enlighten me if shagging refers to all kind of sexual activities?

Last edited by Vhanja (January 5, 2017 3:06 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2017 5:12 pm

You're right, Vhanja, it's penetrative sex! I imagine all sorts of amusing misunderstandings coming from using it wrongly!

**Posted by besleybean** January 5, 2017 5:37 pm

So are those fic writers native English speakers?
Because I agree with Liberty, that's what the word would mean to me.

**Posted by Yitzock** January 5, 2017 6:42 pm

It could be that fics where other acts have been described with that word were written by Americans or Canadians who misunderstood what the word meant, even if they were native English speakers. It's not a word that's commonly used here, there's other slang expressions for it. I'm Canadian and I knew what the word meant from having learned it when I got older and read/watched more stuff from "across the pond" and when I read your question, Vhanja, I, too, was not sure what "qualified" under the definition of the word.

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2017 7:53 pm

Yes, it seems to be a local word. I remember we had a discussion here about John saying he wanted to "get off with" Sarah. Here (UK) that just seems to mean getting together with (kissing), but outside I think some people felt it meant having sex with.

Shagging (the word, not the activity) seems to have gone out of fashion these days, though. It only seems to be used in a joking, light-hearted way.

**Posted by Vhanja** January 5, 2017 8:04 pm

Thanks for letting me know, glad I have understood it correctly.

**Posted by Yitzock** January 6, 2017 12:03 am

Very interesting, Liberty.

**Posted by Yitzock** November 2, 2019 3:50 pm

This is more of a question about accents than anything.
I've noticed a couple times that (at least some) people from the UK pronounce the name "Davies" differently than I would have thought. I always thought it would be pronounced like "Davy" with an S at the end. But I've heard the drummer Gethin Davies pronounce his own name and heard Ben Whishaw pronounce Russell T Davies' last name like "Davis." Do (some) British accents make "Davis" and "Davies" sound the same, or have they been different spellings of the same pronunciation all this time?

**Posted by besleybean** November 2, 2019 5:04 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure if there is an actual rule...at the end of the day, it's how the people themselves want to say it.
My instinct is that Davis is 'Dave- iss'.
Whereas 'Davies' is 'Dave-ees'.
I guess it's a Welsh name and I do speak Welsh...still not certain on this one.

**Posted by Liberty** November 3, 2019 8:42 am

Now that you mention it, I think I would pronounce them much the same, while thinking that I was pronouncing them differently! But yes, I think it will come down to how people want the name pronounced, and I've sometimes come across the same name (same spelling) pronounced in different ways. (For instance, the Scots surname MacKay - I've heard it the last syllable rhyme with the letter A and the letter I).

**Posted by Yitzock** November 3, 2019 7:07 pm

Maybe it is related to a person's accent and/or where they come from (and an individual's preference). My instinct is what besley described, but maybe the way some people pronounce it, it could sound closer to the same sound.
I hadn't realized McKay had different pronunciations, too.

**Posted by besleybean** November 3, 2019 7:11 pm

Many Scottish names do!
Altho as an English woman, I even say the prefix differently to the natives.
Around here(East Scotland) the say 'Mac' for 'Mac'(obviously!) and 'Mick', for 'Mc'.
For the latter, in(North East England, at least), we say 'Muck'!

Last edited by besleybean (November 3, 2019 7:12 pm)

**Posted by Yitzock** November 4, 2019 6:16 pm

I've definitely heard those variations before. I remember learning that from my mum pronouncing McAfee as Mac-a-fee, whereas I had seen it on school computers and thought it was Mick-a-fee, like Mick-donalds.

**Posted by Liberty** November 5, 2019 7:42 am

It's funny, but I don't know what I say. I don't even know if I pronounce Mc or Mac differently. I need somebody to secretly record me when I'm not thinking about it! I'm not very observant.

There's something I noticed only in the past couple of years, and only because my son pointed out, and that's that I pronounce "wh" differently to "w". Apparently this only happens in certain areas, but I thought it was the whole of English speaking world and somehow hadn't noticed that everybody else wasn't doing it! We would pronounce names like Whedon, Whalley, etc. differently.

I had already noticed rhoticity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English , but found it confusing when my son was learning phonics at school! I think there are probably loads of words/names that are pronounced differently just within the UK, never mind other English-speaking areas!

Last edited by Liberty (November 5, 2019 8:04 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** November 5, 2019 7:50 am

Yep, I think in every language, there are multiple variants!