BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary - Pregnant or not?

**Posted by ukaunz** January 20, 2016 11:05 pm

I've read some comments elsewhere that Mary doesn't look pregnant in TAB, especially in Sherlock's mp.

Here are some screen shots

I think she does look pregnant...

**Posted by miriel68** January 21, 2016 9:28 am

She is pregnant in today's time and not pregnant in Victorian narration - I don't see any problem there. I suppose it's wishful thinking: killing non pregnant Mary in series 4 would be easier that get rid of her and baby.

**Posted by ukaunz** January 21, 2016 10:00 am

Okay, so I've found the comments I was referring to. It's the scene when Mary is sitting on the plane, people seem to think she doesn't look pregnant there. But she is sitting forward on the edge of the seat with her knees apart, so her tummy would be hanging down and her clothes draping/covering her bump.

Sort of like this

But obviously with a loose coat and scarf covering her bump. I don't know why this is bothering me so much, that people think she doesn't look pregnant in this one scene, like she "forgot her pillow". Every woman carries differently and sits differently when pregnant. I agree she looked more cumbersome in HLV when she as sitting at the Holmes' house, but she was sitting back in a deep soft chair and then trying to get up, I think it's harder to get up from that sort of position. Anyway, Amanda has had two kids, I'm sure she knows how to act pregnant, based on her own experiences!

Last edited by ukaunz (January 21, 2016 10:00 am)

**Posted by Harriet** January 21, 2016 10:45 am

Oh, but don't forget that those who questioned this sitting position also spoke from their own pregnancy experiences. Your screenshots are quite clear, only the sitty thing might or not work for a woman whose pregnancy is probably advanced compared to the lady in pink. And Mary's knees are less spread than hers, too. I'd rather decide from your other screenshots - they make a much better point.

**Posted by ukaunz** January 21, 2016 11:12 am

Yeah I couldn't find a better photo, I was just trying to show that her clothing would hang down in front and obscure her bump. I know other people on the board are speaking from experience too...
I guess my main reason for getting bothered by this is that I don't think our brilliant, details-focussed show creators could be so careless that Amanda would forget to wear her fake belly and no one would notice! Possibly these comments are said jokingly... I don't know. I also realise that what miriel says is true, it would be easier for everyone to deal with Mary being killed off if there was no baby. It's a very conflicting situation these writers have put us in!

**Posted by Harriet** January 21, 2016 11:25 am

As you said, of course they would not forget something like that, and I suppose it was said jokingly.
I think the whole question came from: Why is Mary in Victorian MP not pregnant within the timeline of TAB, and are there overlooked indicators that might hint she isn't pregnant either in the tarmac scene?
Background is of course the whole Mary pregnancy topic, there are some fishy things, while it seems obvious she is really pregnant. I don't want to go too deep into it, I don't have a clear opinion here what they are telling us.

**Posted by nakahara** January 21, 2016 11:31 am

Well, I´m comparing this:

ukaunz wrote:
I've read some comments elsewhere that Mary doesn't look pregnant in TAB, especially in Sherlock's mp.

Here are some screen shots

I think she does look pregnant...

with this:

The bumb is making her almost immobile in HLV and it´s huge, while in TAB taking place later, especially in these two scenes I´m pointing at above, is almost non-existent and Mary moves with relative ease... to me it looks like she is selectively pregnant in one moment, not pregnant at all in the next....

**Posted by ukaunz** January 21, 2016 11:53 am

Hmm, to me the bump looks much the same size, taking different clothing into account, although I agree she moved much more carefully in HLV than in TAB (ignoring the Victorian scenes where she is clearly not meant to be pregnant). I think she was possibly playing it up for sympathy in the Christmas Day scenes, but again, she's trying to heave herself up from a deep padded chair that's she's been sitting in for some time. It's rather difficult to analyse her behaviour in the modern mp scenes, but in the "real life" scenes she is mostly just standing around.

**Posted by SusiGo** January 21, 2016 12:08 pm

I think it is difficult to decide. They would not be so careless to forget the belly although I am one of those who think that when she is sitting on the plane she does not look very pregnant.

For me, however, the most interesting question is why Victorian Mary is not pregnant. A simple explanation of course might be that her husband has abandoned her for an unsavoury companion so there was not chance for her of getting pregnant.
Joking apart, one might also argue that this is Sherlock's mind in which he shapes the characters after his liking. So we might assume that for whatever reason he prefers a non-pregnant Mary to a pregnant one.

**Posted by Ivy** January 21, 2016 12:18 pm

I agree it would even makes sense if she weren't pregnant in Sherlocks "dreams". He isn't exactly happy that they'll have "another" baby ;)

**Posted by ukaunz** January 21, 2016 12:24 pm

My (boring) explanation is just that Moftiss wanted it that way for the story. They could hardly have a pregnant woman running around spying and solving mysteries in 1895.

**Posted by nakahara** January 21, 2016 12:29 pm

ukaunz wrote:
They could hardly have a pregnant woman running around spying and solving mysteries in 1895.

But why? They wanted they story to be a feminist one, did they not?
What could be more feminist than showing us the woman who is able to excell in dangerous mission although being pregnant at the time? To demonstrate to us that pregnancy does not make her weak, nor useless?

But they didn´t do it, so I have another theory: could this be a Sherlock´s deduction? The one he makes unconsciously? Does he know she is not really pregnant the way he knew she was a Liar in TEH?

Last edited by nakahara (January 21, 2016 12:29 pm)

**Posted by ukaunz** January 21, 2016 12:43 pm

Perhaps... but my mind just rebels at the thought. Fakes deaths, and a fake pregnancy... C'mon! But if that is what Moftiss end up doing, I'm sure they'll do it well.

**Posted by SusiGo** January 21, 2016 12:53 pm

@Nakahara: Interesting. He could have pictured Victorian Mary pregnant. After all she is married to John, is a nurse with a second "job", but she is not pregnant. I suppose this difference must have a meaning since she is tough enough to spy for Mycroft and creep around abandoned churches wearing trousers.

**Posted by nakahara** January 21, 2016 1:24 pm

Another thought: Mary wears black during TAB, as if she´s in mourning.... could this be a mourning for a child she miscarried as her Victorian-self?

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 21, 2016 3:52 pm

The pregnancy thing is puzzling . I think all The scenes except maybe the last scene on the tarmac are mp.
I sort of have concluded that the Victorian mp scenes are Sheroock thinking about the time when Mary broke into Magnussens and shot him , and she didn't look pregnant then , and the modern scenes are more about what happened after the shooting and at christmas , so more obviously pregnant then.
Noticabilility of the bump is then accurate ish to the timeline.

**Posted by miriel68** January 22, 2016 8:34 am

Swanpride wrote:
In short, if simply would have made the whole episode more complicated.And I think that Mary acts a little bit more agile because her actress is not supposed to draw too much attention to the pregnancy. It would only draw away the focus from Sherlock.

Oh, I agree completely. Pregnant Mary in Victorian time would only make everything more complicated and draw attention to the issue which doesn't need to be bring forward too much. So I would just say it was just Moftiss's common sense to leave this aspect alone in that line of the story.

**Posted by Little Weed** January 22, 2016 8:51 am

I don't think it says much about Mary and more about Sherlock. it's all in his mind afterall, rolling out like a play, "a superlative piece of theatre I applaud the spectacle". His brain has focussed on Mary being a spy in this instance... she is fulfilling the interfering Mycroft role as Sherlock has made him too obese to move.

**Posted by Harriet** January 22, 2016 9:47 am

I agree, Little Weed. The needs of the film makers and the MP perspective should not be confused here. It's Sherlock's story he's telling here about Mary.

(Btw, in Victorian times most pregnant women in Britain were forced to work much harder than nowadays. Even if we are talking about a middle class situation here, we should not forget that it was a minority who could take good care of themselves during a pregnancy in those days.)

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 22, 2016 1:38 pm

Actually, it's quite funny to imagine Sherlock deducing Mary's pregnant on her wedding day in Victorian times , can you imagine the shock horror and scandal? lol .
Probably even mentioning a lady is pregnant is bad manners , so maybe that's why victorian Mary isn't pregnant , no sex before marriage, and John's too busy with Sherlock after .
Sherlocks head probably has some vague idea of Victorian manners after all.