BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Simpler Explanation of the Case?

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 5, 2016 2:34 pm

The first suicide was real, all subsequent murders were done by the fake brides of the group. No need to have this complex switch of bodies etc.

**Posted by tonnaree** January 5, 2016 2:46 pm

That's true, but the original Bride would have missed out on blowing away her husband. Plus, having her husband see her and confirm that it was his wife gave more legitimacy to the other brides.

**Posted by Yitzock** January 5, 2016 2:56 pm

I agree with tonnaree.

While simplicity can sometimes work in your favour by keeping others figuring out what you are doing, but they needed everyone to believe what had happened and know that the murders were connected.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 5, 2016 3:48 pm

But her husband was an opium addict and hardly a reliable witness. It was dark, she was wearing the same wedding dress they were married in (presumably), and singing their song. Anyone looking vaguely similar to her could have been able to pull it off.

I think probably she wanted the satisfaction of murdering her own husband though.

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2016 4:03 pm

She could have done it without raising the veil too. But I think the case hinged on the seemingly impossible - that it HAD to be her who did the first murder. And the cabbie was able to identify her too.

One of the flaws for me, is that Carmichael fainted just as Janine was raising the veil. That was quite a coincidence to rely on. If he hadn't fainted at that moment, he might have noticed that it was a different woman. It was very convenient that only Lady Carmichael saw the face.

Of course, it was all in Sherlock's mind palace so didn't need to have happened like that, and maybe Sherlock added those details.

Otherwise, I thought the case/mystery aspect was very good.

**Posted by Mothonthemantel** January 5, 2016 4:32 pm

Hi Sherlock . I think she had to be identified after her death to create a believable ghost legend for the other brides to use . I think Holmes says something like she picked a cab driver that knew her so her identity as the dead woman would be confirmed without doubt.
I think the case was real and fairly famous because no one had been able to solve the ghost as a killer puzzle for a century. How could Sherlock resist trying to solve that especially once he realises how similar it is to the present situation . It looks like Moriarty copied the idea .

**Posted by nakahara** January 5, 2016 9:45 pm

Liberty wrote:
One of the flaws for me, is that Carmichael fainted just as Janine was raising the veil. That was quite a coincidence to rely on. If he hadn't fainted at that moment, he might have noticed that it was a different woman. It was very convenient that only Lady Carmichael saw the face.

Since it´s Lady Carmichael - an actual murderer - who narrates this part of a story to Sherlock, I think it´s obvious she lied and Eustache was never ever in the garden alone at night. It would be highly illogical for him to do so anyway.

Plus, when Sherlock and John meet Sir Eustache later, the guy is a cold-blooded smug bastard and not at all this hysterical, fearful man from Lady Carmichael´s account. One more proof that she lied.

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2016 9:45 pm

True, although Sherlock did seem to make a point of the other women being able to disguise themselves as the bride. If the other murders had happened like the Carmichael one, and just relied on the women's accounts, then they wouldn't have needed brides at all. We're never told exactly how much information present-day Sherlock had. (Possibly the old newspaper accounts that he sees in his mind palace? They didn't seem to reveal an awful lot).

**Posted by nakahara** January 5, 2016 9:54 pm

"Bride" in Carmichael´s case was actually seen by Sherlock and John.
I think that was the whole point of Lady Carmichael engaging Sherlock into her case, before the murder happened. The famous detective and his Boswell will witness the ghost of the bride entering the house and whole world would ascribe the crime to that spook after that.

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2016 10:09 pm

But that was all in Sherlock's imagination/mind palace.

**Posted by nakahara** January 5, 2016 10:11 pm

Liberty wrote:
But that was all in Sherlock's imagination/mind palace.

I know, but it´s treted there as a real-life case that could have this as a real solution.

**Posted by Liberty** January 5, 2016 10:18 pm

I think it can be a real life case, and the solution can be correct, but some things have to be just mind palace, including Sherlock's involvement (unless the scene at the end is a hint that the Victorian Sherlock is real!). Perhaps Sherlock read an account where there was a similar witness, but it couldn't actually have been him. If there wasn't another witness .. only John (as far as we know) saw the Molly bride, so they could have got away with just the Pepper's ghost (assuming somebody else saw that).