BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 2:09 pm

Just remembered what I keep meaning to say!
Did you all see that Sherlock got the top New Year's day viewing figures?
Over 8 mil people watched it.

**Posted by ancientsgate** January 3, 2016 2:16 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
Where can I sign this...? This is so true. Although I have to say TAB didn't really leave me lost, I think it's actually pretty good story-telling. But it's almost impossible to not recognize that Moffat basically runs both shows, "Sherlock" and "Doctor Who". I know there is Mark Gatiss for "Sherlock", too, and he probably influenced the ghost story in TAB very much. Incidentally, I neither liked the ghost story aspect of TAB very much, nor do I particularly like the ghost storeis he wrote for DW. But this is really getting off topic, I guess.

Being an American with access to our major networks, I have a few American prime time dramas that I'm currently following from week to week. These are shows with about 22 new episodes each calendar year, and each one is around 40 minutes of story-telling time. So the shows I regularly follow are way more prolific than Sherlock-- they have way more time to fill and also time to develop the major characters' lives and those of the supporting cast.

I think I'm more used to the story-telling style I find in those shows than in this (what seems like) deliberate oh-so-clever, let's-wow-them-with-our-inventiveness-so-the-internet-will-go-crazy-for-months-fighting-over-it thing that has been happening around Sherlock at least since S3 aired.

It's extremely possible that (to use a saying that my husband and I often speak of when we watch something on TV these days) "this was not aimed at me." I don't know who Sherlock is "aimed at" but maybe this style of story-telling skews more to a younger male audience? Or a younger audience in general.

I love to read, have done a bit of short story writing myself, I love a good character-driven story, and IMO if you have characters that people can latch on to and get invested in, you don't need to get impossibly clever with what you write them to get up to. The story will stand as a strong one, if you just give them something interesting to do and say without resorting to whatever-that-is that Sherlock is currently getting up to (descriptive words fail me). I even really enjoy science fiction, so it's not like everything I see and read has to be based in reality, either. Write it so I can believe it, and I'll follow an author most anywhere he or she wants to take me. But if I can't believe it, then... I fail to be entertained anymore. IMO it's the author or screenwriter's JOB to make me believe it.

All just my two cents marked down from five, my opinions only, of course, offered for the purposes of discussion. Not trying to persuade anyone of anything, for sure.

**Posted by Liberty** January 3, 2016 2:25 pm

Personally, I kind of liked the cheekiness of it. "... and it was all a dream" is such a cliche of a bad way to do a story, and it seemed deliberate to take that and do it well. I appreciated the insight into Sherlock's mind, and the tying up of a couple of loose ends (rather than leaving us hanging for another year or two!) in those few minutes of "reality". I felt happy at the end of it - happier about going into S4.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 3, 2016 2:31 pm

I do agree about the Doctor Who like aspects to a point... This was an episode where I could really tell the shows shared writers.

But, I was very glad it was a mind palace thing and not actual time travel or some parallel universe type of thing... I really feared that could have been the case. I'm a Whovian as I'm Sherlocked, but I like the shows for different reasons.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 2:32 pm

I concur.
I do think this was a one off, different episode.
I look forward to returning to normal service in S4.

**Posted by Ivy** January 3, 2016 2:39 pm

Happy New Year everyone. I finally found the time to watch it. I'm relieved I enjoyed it and I liked Bens hair and I hoped so much that it really would be a mindpalace thing. Great that we got some 21.century scenes that are a "bridge" between HLV and the fourth series.

Mycroft OMG! and Mr Hooper, haha, very well played.

I was sure Andrew would be in it, although he denied it, He was so creepy. The scene with Moriarty and Sherlock in Baker Street was amazing as usual.

The scene in the plane and Mycroft saying "I'll always be there for you"

So Moriarty is really dead, who would have thought, good to know *LOL* I hope that 4 years long theory is dead now, too.

**Posted by SolarSystem** January 3, 2016 2:56 pm

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:
I do agree about the Doctor Who like aspects to a point... This was an episode where I could really tell the shows shared writers.

But, I was very glad it was a mind palace thing and not actual time travel or some parallel universe type of thing... I really feared that could have been the case. I'm a Whovian as I'm Sherlocked, but I like the shows for different reasons.

TAB however reminded me a bit of last year's (2014) "Doctor Who" christmas special. Lots of it took place in Clara's dream, if I remember correctly. I could be wrong though, because I've only watched it once. But they definitely were playing around with dreams. And in the end... dream or mind palace, these two things do have some things in common, at least from the point of view of a story-teller.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 2:57 pm

Sorry, I am still not 100% convinced he is dead!

**Posted by Ivy** January 3, 2016 3:20 pm

Well I was convinced the moment he shot himself on that rooftop. So I never was really interested in those theories. The argument for me was not so much "he blew his brain out" but how incredible uninspired and boring it would be if he survived, too. Like Moffat said "they didn't fake suicide at each other". I would be happy if he is still alive in Sherlocks mindpalace, though. Because Andrew does it so very well. This could be a running gag for the upcoming series.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 3:24 pm

Oh yes at Reichenbach and thereafter I was firmly in the camp that he was dead and staying dead....it's as time's gone on I've started to doubt...
Maybe I just need S4!
But I will take whatever they give us!

Last edited by besleybean (January 3, 2016 3:25 pm)

**Posted by silverblaze** January 3, 2016 3:24 pm

besleybean wrote:
Sorry, I am still not 100% convinced he is dead!

Oh NOOOO! Here we go again.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 3:25 pm

Haha.

**Posted by James Norrington** January 3, 2016 3:34 pm

Sorry, it's not our fault we think that way, they just keep on playing with our minds and therefore we just don't know what to believe and so we just start believing what we want.
How can anyone blame us after this episode?

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 3:41 pm

In my defence, as I have said: when Moriarty shot himself, I not only accepted he was dead- I saw he had to be.
But what niggles at me now is, if he has gone- are we just gonna get a trail of inferior villains?
I suppose if they are all following his plan, with his blessing...maybe it will work.

**Posted by kgreen20** January 3, 2016 3:43 pm

besleybean wrote:
@ancientsgate Not that I'm aware of...we're still on the existing Mary threads, across the whole board is a spoiler zone now.
Incidentally I will have to disagree with you.
I definitely think in the wide world the Johnlockers are in the majority.
I actually think they are on this forum, too.
Anybody care to do survey, so we actually have the accurate figures?

I am not a Johnlocker, since I will neither read nor write slash.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 3:44 pm

I'm not either.

**Posted by silverblaze** January 3, 2016 3:46 pm

Hehe, I'm just enjoying the ride. But I do believe that Moriarty is dead. As I did before. I love the idea of Moriarty now becoming an idea, an identity to commit crimes under, but I'm also really looking forward to meeting a new villain.

**Posted by James Norrington** January 3, 2016 3:49 pm

Well, I kind of know he's dead and has to be dead but I don't want him to be and therefore I believe he isn't. *behaving like a child* :D

As for the Johnlock-survey, there actually is one: http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=6229
I'm not a Johnlocker either, btw.

**Posted by Liberty** January 3, 2016 3:52 pm

He'd better be dead. I'm not going to be happy if they've done a whole episode to confirm that he's dead, only to bring him back. For goodness sake.

And I do like Moriarty as a villain and think Andrew is great, BUT ... I think he's maybe a little bit overdone. I think there's too much of a need for Sherlock to have a named nemesis. Moriarty's big story was really TRF, but he's been in just about every other episode, one way or another. ACD didn't have the need to put him every story.

I think it's time for another arch-enemy. Magnussen was great, really great, and just showed what they could do with the right writing and actor. Moriarty can pop up now and then in Sherlock's mind palace if he wants.

Last edited by Liberty (January 3, 2016 3:53 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2016 3:54 pm

I really don't know why they got rid of CAM...he was fab.
Wonder who we'll get next?