BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / John's evovlement throughout the show

**Posted by Whisky** October 1, 2015 1:17 pm

ahh, crossposting. I don't agree. No matter how good Sherlock's deductions are, how could he possibly read in Marys behaviour how much she thinks John weights?

So, the part about the weight. I wondered about that, too. It's really strange. Gives me the feeling of little meet-ups in cafes or sth like that... but why would they??

Could it be, if most of us took a big leap and just tried the thought, could it be that Sherlock and Mary actually are kind of friends? I mean, Sherlock words "why didn't you come to me in the first place" suggest they have a relationship as friends might have.

Although it makes me really uneasy, because then not John's wife shot Sherlock, but one of his friends... which makes it way worse than it is anyway.

bit off-topic, but yeah.

And if John misses Sherlock so much, why doesn't he totally explode when Sherlock uses the words "Mary and me think..." ?? Because it suggests Mary meets Sherlock but not him, John. He would be upset, wouldn't he? But we don't see it. So what's going on?

Last edited by Whisky (October 1, 2015 1:20 pm)

**Posted by SusiGo** October 1, 2015 1:18 pm

So John's silence might be explained by Sherlock leaving the wedding abruptly?

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:18 pm

Yes, that might have pushed John to believe that Sherlock wanted some distance.

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:20 pm

Whisky wrote:
Oh yes, the part about the weight. I wondered about that, too. It's really strange. Gives me the feeling of little meet-ups in cafes or sth like that... but why would they??

Could it be, if most of us took a big leap and just tried the thought, could it be that Sherlock and Mary actually are kind of friends? I mean, Sherlock words "why didn't you come to me in the first place" suggest they have a relationship as friends might have.

Although it makes me really uneasy, because then not John's wife shot Sherlock, but one of his friends... which makes it way worse than it is anyway.

bit off-topic, but yeah.

And if John misses Sherlock so much, why doesn't he totally explode when Sherlock uses the words "Mary and me think..." ?? Because it suggests Mary meets Sherlock but not him, John. He would be upset, wouldn't he? But we don't see it. So what's going on?

Sherlock *really* wouldn't meet just with Mary, especially not just for chit chats in coffee shops - apart from that there wouldn't be any reason, he is really not the type. And if that had happened, Mary would have told John, and John would have been even more put out and mentioned it to Sherlock in his rant.

They definitely meant that he deduced it just like in the case of her not liking the moustache.

**Posted by SusiGo** October 1, 2015 1:21 pm

I am happy to agree. One thing less I did not like.

**Posted by Whisky** October 1, 2015 1:22 pm

I have no objections to "Mary thinks John weighs to much", but I cannot see how Sherlock deduces a certain number.

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:23 pm

Whisky wrote:
I have no objections to "Mary thinks John weighs to much", but I cannot see how Sherlock deduces a certain number.

but that's why he's Sherlock Holmes....deductions are a bit like a super power we can't completely understand rationally.

**Posted by SusiGo** October 1, 2015 1:28 pm

Yes, we need some suspension of disbelief. Ever tried to write on a touchscreen phone with your hands behind your back?

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:31 pm

right! if we had to list all the things Sherlock does that you can't actually know no matter how good you are at deductions...

**Posted by tonnaree** October 1, 2015 1:36 pm

John and Sherlock are both stubborn gits and need to bloody talk to each other.

And this is true no matter if they are friends or more than friends.

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:37 pm

tonnaree wrote:
John and Sherlock are both stubborn gits and need to bloody talk to each other.

And this is true no matter if they are friends or more than friends.

they are:

men + British + stubborn = GOD HELP US

**Posted by SusiGo** October 1, 2015 1:40 pm

Worst combination ever.

**Posted by Whisky** October 1, 2015 1:46 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Yes, we need some suspension of disbelief. Ever tried to write on a touchscreen phone with your hands behind your back?

That's why I don't have a smartphone, because typing behind your back is really useful

But Sherlock has such beautiful hands, I'm sure he can handle it, even if it's tricky........
where has the topic gone again?

Last edited by Whisky (October 1, 2015 1:47 pm)

**Posted by Whisky** October 1, 2015 1:48 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
men + British + stubborn = GOD HELP US

Is Sherlock actually stubborn?

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:48 pm

Ah, Whisky, don't ask me - I'm still sitting on the rather crowded naughty step....

**Posted by Whisky** October 1, 2015 1:50 pm

It must be comfy, and the company's so good... I am always so tempted to join...

(did I mention that naughty step is new vocabulary for me and that I totally love it? whenever I will need to use it in future, it will pop to mind with a nice visual picture: you all sitting on there sharing naughty thoughts... lovely )

**Posted by Magingus** October 1, 2015 1:52 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
Whisky wrote:
I have no objections to "Mary thinks John weighs to much", but I cannot see how Sherlock deduces a certain number.
but that's why he's Sherlock Holmes....deductions are a bit like a super power we can't completely understand rationally.

Indeed. The writers explain some of Sherlock's deductions, but many of them go unexplained - especially the ones that seem downright impossible. The explanations show us how he generally arrives at conclusions, but the "impossible" seeming ones we are meant to just accept. I believe the implication is that the character of Sherlock is so clever, that even the writers of the show sometimes don't even know how he does it.

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 1:53 pm

Magingus wrote:
Dorothy83 wrote:
Whisky wrote:
I have no objections to "Mary thinks John weighs to much", but I cannot see how Sherlock deduces a certain number.
but that's why he's Sherlock Holmes....deductions are a bit like a super power we can't completely understand rationally.

Indeed. The writers explain some of Sherlock's deductions, but many of them go unexplained - especially the ones that seem downright impossible. The explanations show us how he generally arrives at conclusions, but the "impossible" seeming ones we are meant to just accept. I believe the implication is that the character of Sherlock is so clever, that even the writers of the show sometimes don't even know how he does it.

agreed.

**Posted by SusiGo** October 1, 2015 1:54 pm

Could we come back to the hands, please?

**Posted by Dorothy83** October 1, 2015 2:04 pm

I had an image of Sherlock telling John to go sit on the naughy step for something he said while they are in bed together... but I think what I'm gonna do instead is sit on my step tightly, and perhaps see if I can find a cushion since I expect I'll be here a while...

Last edited by Dorothy83 (October 1, 2015 2:04 pm)