nakahara wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

But for me there is another reading - John is married now and he woke this morning from dreaming about Sherlock, with his wife at his side. And he apparently expects to find him in front of the door and is disappointed and exasperated when seeing then neighbour instead. I think he cannot trust himself to be a married man who is "just friends" with Sherlock.

I have a feeling that John wants to continue doing cases with Sherlock very much, but at the same time, he is very proud to admit it - maybe is confusing behaviour is his attempt to make Sherlock beg for his help, so that he feels needed and not just a tag-a-log...
 

One day-- I swear these guys will learn to Use. Their. Words! 

SusiGo wrote:

Nakahara: Yes, but why this change after the wedding? Sherlock recounts their cases during the speech and as I understand it, some of them, if not all, happened between Sherlock's return and the wedding. John obviously had no qualms about working cases with Sherlock then. So I take it that the marriage has been a game changer. 

Here's a question-- did John *actually* want to get married-- or did he just *think* he should? Do you think he's holding onto that, even though it's obvious that he's unhappy-- out of pride? Hurt? A combination of the two? Or just stubborness? I think there's a little part of him that's also punishing Sherlock for the Fall.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (September 30, 2015 8:20 am)

I think John clearly has feelings for Mary. At least before the assasin reveal. I don't see why he would want to propose to her if he didn't, being all nervous and flustered (John usually struggles with anything have to do with talking about emotions, so the proposal was clearly emotional for him).

I think he would've been content, although perhaps not properly happy, with a married life with Mary if Sherlock really had been dead and Mary had never been revealed to be an assassin. 

But I think Sherlock returning changed everything, both to the better and to the worse. And I never got the feeling that John didn't want to marry. In TSoT John is in general in a good mood (apart from the Sholto bit). It's not until he returns from his honeymoon he realises that this new life isn't working for him. That doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have any feelings for Mary, only that it's not enough. And that the suburbian life isn't enough.

But John is a man of strong moral principles. He can't just divorce and leave his pregnant wife because he needs his danger fix. So I think we see him being very frustrated and in turmoil over not getting his new life working.

His playing hard to get is only a token resistance, he tags along as he always does. Perhaps Sherlock knowing that he will is a reassurance? But I do struggle a bit to understand why the token resistance at all. 

or maybe John is still so attached to his 'queen and country' attitude, still clinging strongly to the idea that he should have a wife and a nice family alongside the thrill of the chase with Sherlock, that he's willing to do this enormus effort to move on from the bad stuff that's happened - a bit like a spouse who's been cheated on but wants to forgive after their partner confesses? And let's not forget that Sherlock pushed him into it, guilted him into it in fact, told him it's what he likes. And when has John ever denied Sherlock anything?

To me, that could definitely be an explanation for John's decision.

I think seeing that Sherlock wasn't against Mary even after what she did to me played a big part in John's attitude towards the whole thing...

We discussed this quite a lot in another thread - my idea is that since Sherlock's mum says that their reason for being all together for Christmas is that Sherlock is 'back from the hospital', he must have been there recovering for the whole time (I'm thinking, he was in a private wing, as shown in the hospital scene - thanks to Mycroft, I don't think he would have left his brother in a 'normal' facility - so it was a bit like a hotel).

John saw Sherlock every day and looked after him as he recovered; but he lived in 221B (as hinted by Moffat with John's line 'why does Sherlock think I'm moving back in').

And my idea is also that John and Mary weren't speaking.

Last edited by Dorothy83 (October 1, 2015 11:34 am)

Sherlock saw that John was suffering, and knew that Mary loved him. So he pushed for John to understand why she did it so that they could move on and solve the case.

If John stops loving her for other reasons, that'll be out of Sherlock's hands.

the way I see it: the month of not seeing each other, we have to consider John and Mary have been away on their honeymoon, so we could account for like, a couple of weeks? Then once they're back, Sherlock didn't call John because, as we know from the ending of TsoT, he now thinks he is redundant in John's life. And John hasn't heard from him, and is being proud and not contacting him because he doesn't understand why Sherlock is staying away and wants Sherlock to contact him first (because he wants to feel that he is still important for Sherlock).

I have been in both their situations with my own friends (I'm an insecure person, as John and Sherlock are in their new 'situation' after the wedding), so I can see this happening quite clearly.

SusiGo wrote:

Sherlock and Mary, however, must have been in contact since they allegedly talked about the weight John put on. 

 

to me, that is incorrect. Yes, Sherlock does say 'Mary and I think this', but I don't read that as them talking - I read that as him deducing that Mary thought the same and he deduced it from observing Mary that morning at the hospital most likely (when they were talking about the biking to work, perhaps).
Just like when he deduced that Mary also didn't like the moustache, in TEH.

It doesn't make sense that Sherlock would talk to Mary but not to John (also because what would he talk to her for?)


 

Last edited by Dorothy83 (October 1, 2015 1:14 pm)

I truly believe that is how they meant it.