BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Called it!

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** September 17, 2015 11:56 am

kgreen20 wrote:
No kidding. But for the show to stay true to canon, that's what will have to happen. Don't forget that Mary died in canon, and that the canon Dr. Watson did not raise a child as a single father.

Actually, technically, nowhere in the canon does it say that Mary Watson died. He is married to Mary before Holmes' "death", then when Holmes returns in The Empty House, it says, " In some manner he had learned of my own sad bereavement, and his sympathy was shown in his manner rather than in his words."

It doesn't say what the bereavement was referring to and it doesn't mention Mary by name. Everyone just assumes it's Mary because she isn't mentioned again. Could have been his dog for all we know, really. And you know how Moffat LOVE to twist the canon around, turn expectations on their heads. Mary dying is the obvious choice to make.

**Posted by Dorothy83** September 17, 2015 1:12 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
kgreen20 wrote:
No kidding. But for the show to stay true to canon, that's what will have to happen. Don't forget that Mary died in canon, and that the canon Dr. Watson did not raise a child as a single father.

Actually, technically, nowhere in the canon does it say that Mary Watson died. He is married to Mary before Holmes' "death", then when Holmes returns in The Empty House, it says, " In some manner he had learned of my own sad bereavement, and his sympathy was shown in his manner rather than in his words."

It doesn't say what the bereavement was referring to and it doesn't mention Mary by name. Everyone just assumes it's Mary because she isn't mentioned again. Could have been his dog for all we know, really. And you know how Moffat LOVE to twist the canon around, turn expectations on their heads. Mary dying is the obvious choice to make.

really? ACD mentions that Watson had a sad bereavement, after which he moves back into Baker Street, and his wife isn't mentioned again. The way I see it, there is absolutely no room for doubt that his wife died? Why would he move back in with Sherlock if Mary was still alive? You don't even need deduction skills to put all these clues together...

And yes, Moffat loves to twist canon, but after what Amanda said ("we know what happens to Mary, I know HOW it happens") there's little doubt about her fate in the show as well, no matter how much we speculate.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** September 17, 2015 6:16 pm

Zatoichi wrote:
Guardian of flame, hm? Maybe we´ll finally see the background of Sherlock´s guardian-deduction, and it will all make sense, and we´ll all feel very sorry for hating on Mary without knowing anything about her duties as someone´s guardian.. ? ^^

Oh, neat! Good one.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** September 17, 2015 6:18 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
I really don't see how John will be able to cope with the loss of his wife AND his daughter. I mean...that's enough to break any person...how much heartache can one guy take...

I think Fanon John is always about one minute away from a nervous breakdown and catatonia-- Canon John , though very badly hurt-- will come through in the end.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** September 17, 2015 6:21 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
but I thought we had accepted that the 'Guardian' word that pops up in his deduction is a reference to the Guardian which is the newspaper that Mary reads? (in the UK reading the Guardian defines you as someone middle-class and left wing)

Could also be *the* connection to Magnussen-- if Magnussen is like one of those newscorps that basically owns/and or controls every news outlet.... I thought the UK just dealt with that-- and Magnussen, as sort of a FOX news/Rupert Murdoch type might fit the bill.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** September 17, 2015 6:23 pm

Bad prediction (stuff I don't wanna see, but I think they're capable of doing it anyway)- an episode more or less devoted to John, Mary and Baby-- with Sherlock only seen in the periphery; until something comes up where Sherlock is actually needed.

**Posted by Zatoichi** September 18, 2015 6:14 am

Dorothy83 wrote:
but I thought we had accepted that the 'Guardian' word that pops up in his deduction is a reference to the Guardian which is the newspaper that Mary reads? (in the UK reading the Guardian defines you as someone middle-class and left wing)

That´s new to me.. must have missed the discussion! It sounds plausible, but then again the things she does were presented with verbs ("bakes own bread"), so I think it would also fit very well in the list of things she is.. cat lover, linguist etc.

**Posted by silverblaze** September 18, 2015 7:19 am

I think Guardian is deliberately ambiguous: I thought of the newspaper too, but it could be something else.

With all the certainty of Mary's death, I'm almost starting to believe that Moftiss will let her live, just to mess with our heads.

**Posted by Dorothy83** September 18, 2015 10:31 am

silverblaze wrote:
I think Guardian is deliberately ambiguous: I thought of the newspaper too, but it could be something else.

With all the certainty of Mary's death, I'm almost starting to believe that Moftiss will let her live, just to mess with our heads.

but what about what Amanda said?

Honestly, I think Moffat is so sure that after HLV he's managed to make everyone like Mary again that he can't wait to kill her thinking we will all be heartbroken

**Posted by tonnaree** September 18, 2015 11:43 am

Dorothy83 wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
I think Guardian is deliberately ambiguous: I thought of the newspaper too, but it could be something else.

With all the certainty of Mary's death, I'm almost starting to believe that Moftiss will let her live, just to mess with our heads.
but what about what Amanda said?

Honestly, I think Moffat is so sure that after HLV he's managed to make everyone like Mary again that he can't wait to kill her thinking we will all be heartbroken

Boy is he in for a surprise! *giggle*

**Posted by Dorothy83** September 18, 2015 11:53 am

Moffat: S4 will be heartbreaking you will all cry

Us:

**Posted by Zatoichi** September 18, 2015 5:57 pm

Teehee.. that´s the sort of heartbreak I´d like to see!!

**Posted by tonnaree** September 18, 2015 6:24 pm

TOPIC!

In S4 I predict that we will get to see John take a bubble bath.

**Posted by kgreen20** September 19, 2015 3:36 am

I'd love to see John in his Baker Street bedroom! Seeing as the show has only showed Sherlock's so far.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** September 19, 2015 5:50 am

tonnaree wrote:
Dorothy83 wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
I think Guardian is deliberately ambiguous: I thought of the newspaper too, but it could be something else.

With all the certainty of Mary's death, I'm almost starting to believe that Moftiss will let her live, just to mess with our heads.
but what about what Amanda said?

Honestly, I think Moffat is so sure that after HLV he's managed to make everyone like Mary again that he can't wait to kill her thinking we will all be heartbroken
Boy is he in for a surprise! *giggle*

I have matches for the pyre.

**Posted by silverblaze** September 19, 2015 9:41 am

Well, it's just basic Moftiss psychology.

They want to be unpredictable.
We all predict that Mary will die.
Ergo,
She might live.

Of course they don't want to be so unpredictable that that becomes, in itself, predictable. Which of course negates my entire argument.

My brain hurts.

**Posted by Schmiezi** September 20, 2015 6:45 am

My predictions:

- We will see exactly ONE new room of 221b.
- We will see exactly ONE character that has only be mentioned before, like Harry, or Lestrade's wife.
- We will see Mike Stamford again.

**Posted by tonnaree** September 20, 2015 7:57 am

Schmiezi wrote:
My predictions:

- We will see exactly ONE new room of 221b.
- We will see exactly ONE character that has only be mentioned before, like Harry, or Lestrade's wife.
- We will see Mike Stamford again.

Let us praise the angel Stamford.

**Posted by tea&ash** September 26, 2015 3:51 pm

Predictions:

1. As many have posted, Moriarty is really dead (or I want a hella good explanation!)
2. Mary and her unborn child will die
3. Moran will show up in at least one episode

Last edited by tea&ash (September 26, 2015 4:00 pm)

**Posted by nakahara** September 26, 2015 7:42 pm

And I call it that we already saw Moran. Mary Moran....