RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

Here's a question-- do you think some of the way we look at Sherlock from s1 &2 might also have to do with seeing everything from John's POV? Because, in s3-- we saw everything through Sherlock's POV. If nothing else, it makes them both unreliable narrators. 

I've heard (read) this several times, about POV. I might very well be stupid, but I don't see the shift in POV? How do you see it? How do you know S1 and 2 are from John's POV and S3 from Sherlock's? 

Last edited by Vhanja (September 15, 2015 8:26 pm)

SusiGo wrote:

Well, for example the mind palace in HLV. We have never had insight in Sherlock's head before, apart from deductions. But this is personal. Or the voices in his head in TEH. I think are are more points, anyone?
 

Yeah, we get the deductions from Sherlock's POV all the way from ASiP. And we have equal amounts (-ish, haven't counted) with scenes showing only Sherlock or only John. So I don't see the two first seaons being from John's POV exclusively. More a mix. Same with S3, really. 

Exactly. And there are so many things we learn about Sherlock that John does not know: Serbia, the voices in his head, the talk with Mycroft about loneliness and friendship, leaving the wedding without John realising, the look at the empty chair, etc., etc. All important information and John has no idea of all this. 

Very good point, JP and Susi. I may add that in S1 and S2 we tended to hear plenty of John´s opinions about Sherlock, his feelings or lack thereof and we tended to take them as truth because nothing was pointing otherwise to us yet. But in the last series that changed and we realised how little we (and John as our proxy) actually know about the real Sherlock.

My take-- in season 3-- well, one of the major complaints from a lot of viewers was that we saw a lot less of John-- and part of that was because we were seeing John from Sherlock's POV. It started with Sherlock being tortured, and goes all the way through the episodes. The Mind-Palace scenes,  Sherlock's revealing himself as more "human" than John seems to be able to see ("But he's Sherlock. Who would he bother protecting?) 

Redbeard is a good example-- there's all this stuff going on that John never witnesses, never finds out about. And it explains a lot about why John still doesn't quite see Sherlock as "human". 

 

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (September 15, 2015 8:59 pm)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

My take-- in season 3-- well, one of the major complaints from a lot of viewers was that we saw a lot less of John-- and part of that was because we were seeing John from Sherlock's POV. It started with Sherlock being tortured, and goes all the way through the episodes. The Mind-Palace scenes,  Sherlock's revealing himself as more "human" than John seems to be able to see ("But he's Sherlock. Who would he bother protecting?) 

Redbeard is a good example-- there's all this stuff going on that John never witnesses, never finds out about. And it explains a lot about why John still doesn't quite see Sherlock as "human". 

 

This is a very good point that I know has been mentioned before. We, as the viewers, know a lot more about Sherlock than John does. We know about Serbia, about the shooting, about the mind palace scene in HLV, the wonderful dialogue with Mycroft (goldfish) - lot of stuff that gives us great insight into Sherlock that John never knows about. So we can't expect John to see Sherlock as we do.

Again, to me, it boils down to lack of communication. From the both of them. Then again, if they were great at communicating their thoughts and emotions, we wouldn't have half of the drama we have today. 

Edit: Having that said. As much as we talk about John having issues with emotions (which he does), he was actually the first to state in words to Sherlock's face that he loved him. ("... with the two people I care about and love the most...").

Last edited by Vhanja (September 15, 2015 9:09 pm)

And the next season is supposed to be ...darker, heart-rending. OWIES cometh.