BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Does Sherlock's Love for John Make him a Better Man?

**Posted by Dorothy83** July 23, 2015 4:20 pm

What I think is, yes Magnussen was hurting a lot of other people, some to the point of killing themselves, but Sherlock would have never resorted to such an extreme way of stopping him (and this includes even just going to his house to bluff) had John not been at risk of getting hurt or (possibly) getting killed himself - because of Mary and the people who are after her and therefore after John as well once they learn that she got married.

So, only John in danger can make Sherlock react like that - KILL PEOPLE. And that's good enough for me.

(what I don't understand is - why did Sherlock take John with him to Appledore? That was a massively risky thing to do - and John did get 'hurt', as well. What the heck?)

**Posted by Liberty** July 23, 2015 4:41 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
(what I don't understand is - why did Sherlock take John with him to Appledore? That was a massively risky thing to do - and John did get 'hurt', as well. What the heck?)

It's not something I really question. They were already working together on Magnussen, and then they took on Mary's case together. They were working as a team, as they normally do, and the possibility of danger is not something that's stopped them before. I'm sure there were other reasons (John obviously has a vested interest in Mary's case), It would seem odd to me for Sherlock to have gone on his own (although I know he has done things on his own at other times - but this case in particular seems one for the pair of them). And I'm sure John wanted to go.

I suppose there are also some unanswered questions that might have some bearing on it - how far was Sherlock aware of the pressure points chain (Mary > John > Sherlock > Mycroft)? Was Sherlock already considering the possibility of killing Magnussen? Did he feel John needed to witness whatever happened (after being left in the dark about Mary for so long)?

**Posted by SusiGo** July 23, 2015 5:54 pm

I think you can see the very moment in which Sherlock realises he has to kill Magnussen. It is when they are standing in front of the emptly closet and John asks for a plan and Sherlock just closes his eyes. When watching HLV for the first time, I thought, oh, shit, this is going to be very bad. I do not think he planned this before they came to Appledore.

**Posted by tonnaree** July 23, 2015 5:57 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I think you can see the very moment in which Sherlock realises he has to kill Magnussen. It is when they are standing in front of the emptly closet and John asks for a plan and Sherlock just closes his eyes. When watching HLV for the first time, I thought, oh, shit, this is going to be very bad. I do not think he planned this before they came to Appledore.

That's how I see it too Susi. Sherlocks distress and disgust is clear on his face. He's seems horrified at the thought of killing and disgusted with himself for letting CAM get the better of him. It is a worst case senerio, but he will do it for John.

**Posted by Vhanja** July 23, 2015 6:02 pm

I always felt the moment was when they were outside, just before Sherlock asks Magnussen again if there is no vault anywhere. There is a moment of dawning comprehension on his face just prior to him asking that question.

For the scene with John, I always felt that his look of horror and disgust was for Magnussen besting him. When he realises that he doesn't have a plan, a way out. And that this could go horribly wrong for John (through Mary).

Last edited by Vhanja (July 23, 2015 6:03 pm)

**Posted by SusiGo** July 23, 2015 6:10 pm

Vhanja, I think he just wants to confirm this once again before shooting but I see the moment of decision at the earlier point.

**Posted by Vhanja** July 23, 2015 6:22 pm

I know, but I felt there was something going on just a few moments before he asked that question.

**Posted by Liberty** July 23, 2015 6:32 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I think you can see the very moment in which Sherlock realises he has to kill Magnussen. It is when they are standing in front of the emptly closet and John asks for a plan and Sherlock just closes his eyes. When watching HLV for the first time, I thought, oh, shit, this is going to be very bad. I do not think he planned this before they came to Appledore.

I agree - that's what it looks like to me. He seems to recognise that it's an awful thing that he's going to have to do. I think that after that he is just waiting for the right moment, when Mycroft arrives and there are witnesses.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** July 23, 2015 8:17 pm

I agree with this , too. When Sherlock knows he's going to have to kill Magniussen, and he closes his eyes, I can just hear him thinking something like, "I just got my life back, and I'm losing it again, " He KNOWS he won't come back from it.