BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Molly and Jim dating

**Posted by HannahCumberbatch** June 29, 2014 10:19 pm

Hi!

One thing that's been really annoying me recently and that I have probably been very stupid about is the scene in the Great Game when Molly dates Jim -- what exactly was the point of this in the script?

Im confused and have probably made myself sound very stupid...

Thanks!!

Hannah :D

**Posted by James Norrington** June 29, 2014 11:22 pm

Hey!

As far as I understand it, Molly was really flattered about the attention she received from Jim (although I didn't feel she was really in love with him, the 'office romance' didn't go on long enough). As for Jim, he took the opportunity to meet Sherlock at work and check out how smart he really is. Therefore he dressed up like that and gave Sherlock his number. If Sherlock had worked out somehow who Jim really was (although I have no idea how he could have known by that time, but nothing's impossible with Sherlock), he would be able to call Jim. But on the other hand there was the possibility that Sherlock would only deduce Jim's gay and tried to flirt at Sherlock by giving him his number. It was just a check - and a fun thing to do for Moriarty.

I read / heard somewhere that in one early draft of the script, this would be the only time Jim would be seen in person and that Sherlock would somehow find out it was him after Jim had left but could not find him anymore. I'm glad that's not the only scene with Jim in person, to be honest.

**Posted by SusiGo** June 30, 2014 6:35 am

I think they also used the scene in order to create a bigger surprise in the pool scene. Imagine the effect if we had not seen Jim before. This would have been only half the fun.

Btw, this is parallel to how they introduce Mycroft. We think that we are seeing Moriarty and only later realise that he is Sherlock's brother.

**Posted by SolarSystem** June 30, 2014 7:29 am

I agree, without the scene the whole sequence at the pool later on would have felt a little different. I still remember how I started to go "Wait a minute....!?!?" the moment I saw him at the pool. That was great!

Also, I think the scene in the lab is important because it shows us for the very first time that Sherlock isn't perfect and that there are people out there who are as clever as himself - or maybe even more clever. Jim played him. He pretended to be gay, but Sherlock didn't realize it was just pretense, he believed it and thought he'd made a clever deduction. And he completely missed 'the real' Jim.

**Posted by HannahCumberbatch** July 2, 2014 3:01 pm

thanks guys!!

**Posted by Liberty** July 2, 2014 8:45 pm

Poor Molly! It's so funny in this scene that Sherlock completely misses anything else he might deduce about Moriarty and picks up on "gay"! Then just afterwards, when John tries to make deductions about the shoes, Sherlock says that he did really well apart from missing absolutely everything of importance! Not realising that he's done just the same thing himself .

Anyway, I think it's clear that Moriarty has engineered the situation to catch Sherlock out (and it must have been complicated, because he must have had to get the IT job ... or at perhaps pretend he had it) and uses Molly to meet Sherlock, but not for the reason Sherlock thinks. Moriarty is playing games. It's funny that he leaves his phone number and Sherlock doesn't understand the significance of it. I think Molly is also trying to make the point that a nice-looking guy wants to date her, and to play it cool with Sherlock, and Sherlock disillusions her.

**Posted by kornmuhme** July 2, 2015 1:41 pm

I'm wondering if the phone number was a fake. I can imagine that the number was wrong, it was only part of the game Moriarty/Jim was playing at this moment. In case Sherlock had really deduced that Jim was clearly linked to Moriarty, the number would have become a real danger to Moriarty - if it was real/existent.
What do you think?

**Posted by REReader** July 2, 2015 4:37 pm

I'd think it would more likely be the number of one of those disposable cell phones.

**Posted by SolarSystem** July 2, 2015 4:58 pm

I actually believe that the number was real. Maybe really belonging to a disposable cell phone, but if Sherlock had decided to give Jim a call, for whatever reasons, I'm convinced that the person picking up the phone would have been Jim. For Jim this is a game, I don't see why he should have given Sherlock a fake number. He certainly wasn't scared of him.

Last edited by SolarSystem (July 2, 2015 4:58 pm)

**Posted by REReader** July 2, 2015 11:17 pm

Exactly. I said a disposable phone so it wouldn't have been traceable, but Jim would have wanted to answer any call.

**Posted by Magingus** September 22, 2015 4:19 pm

Liberty wrote:
Poor Molly! It's so funny in this scene that Sherlock completely misses anything else he might deduce about Moriarty and picks up on "gay"! Then just afterwards, when John tries to make deductions about the shoes, Sherlock says that he did really well apart from missing absolutely everything of importance! Not realising that he's done just the same thing himself .

I don't think Sherlock "missed anything of importance" on Jim from IT in that scene. He can only deduce from what he observes, and Moriarty was probably very careful to hide the subtle clues that might tell Sherlock who is really was.

This also illustrates (upon retrospect) how clever Moriarty really was. All of the subtle clues that led Sherlock to deduce Jim was gay were in fact carefully engineered by Moriarty to produce such a deduction. He successfully "tricked" Sherlock by misleading his powers of deduction. Very clever indeed.

Most importantly, I feel that Moriarty wants to first meet Sherlock as an "ordinary person" instead of a criminal master-mind. He wants to get a sense of the man without showing his full hand.

**Posted by dioscureantwins** September 22, 2015 8:05 pm

@Liberty
@Magingus

I'm convinced you've got it both right. Yes, Sherlock misses that this is in fact Moriarty, and that's very funny in retrospect when he scoffs at John for missing everything of importance. But it also shows that Moriarty, like Sherlock, is able to hide in plain sight. They truly are like each other, except for the fact that Sherlock is on the side of the angels.

**Posted by Danielle80** May 13, 2016 3:00 pm

I don't know in what way it could be important but I think there is something Sherlock deduced at Moriarty he could not fake but which fitted in that case: His nightclub eyes. Either Moriarty really hang around in nightclubs after organisating crimes or it is a clue concerning an illness or something else.

**Posted by besleybean** May 13, 2016 4:32 pm

I missed that completely.

**Posted by Danielle80** May 13, 2016 5:14 pm

A close up of his nightclub eyes is even part of the opening credit. So perhaps there is really an idea behind it.

**Posted by besleybean** May 13, 2016 5:15 pm

I thought it was all part of the 'gay' deduction.

**Posted by Liberty** May 13, 2016 5:17 pm

Why couldn't he fake it? (Drugs, staying up late, etc would do it - I don't know as I'm not an expert in disguise!).

**Posted by Danielle80** May 13, 2016 5:41 pm

I thought something like this develops with time. The other clues like the underwear, the hair gel or the colored eye browns are easily done. So thats right, you could fake the nightclub eyes but in my opinion it didn't fit to the other clues. But I am not an expert in faking nightclub eyes or disguise too