BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary – the subject of discussion

**Posted by Lola Red** February 2, 2015 3:39 pm

Maybe she just tuned out to be a vegetable; our country is just so dismissive of them
But I see what you mean, even if I think differently.

**Posted by mrshouse** February 2, 2015 3:42 pm

Lola Red wrote:
Maybe she just tuned out to be a vegetable; our country is just so dismissive of them

And yet another way to look at Mary....

**Posted by tonnaree** February 2, 2015 6:04 pm

Snape never shot Harry's best friend.

**Posted by Zatoichi** February 2, 2015 6:14 pm

I'm so glad I wasn't on the internet yet when Harry Potter was acute.. Spared me so many nerves!

Last edited by Zatoichi (February 2, 2015 6:15 pm)

**Posted by SusiGo** February 2, 2015 6:15 pm

tonnaree wrote:
Snape never shot Harry's best friend.

True. And he was not married to Ron or Hermione.

**Posted by tonnaree** February 2, 2015 6:24 pm

Dumbledore ask Snape to kill him.

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 2, 2015 6:26 pm

Snape was not presented as a nice charming man in the beginning who lied to everybody about his dark side. He only turned out to be less-than-evil later on.

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 2, 2015 6:41 pm

I just thought that what we both pointed out is a well known fact in show business. Yet Moftiss decided to turn her from nice to not nice. The could have done it the other way round, of course, but didn't.

Makes you wonder (once more) why they decided to do it that way.

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 2, 2015 6:52 pm

And probably we were not supposed to like her in the end. We will see eventually.

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 2, 2015 7:01 pm

I honestly doubt that they planned her that way just to make hiatus more interesting.

**Posted by tonnaree** February 2, 2015 7:08 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
I honestly doubt that they planned her that way just to make hiatus more interesting.

But I bet they are having fun watching us go round in circles!!!

**Posted by Lola Red** February 2, 2015 7:09 pm

I honestly think they pull off these cliff hangers exactly for that purpose nowadays, to keep the fandom engaged and spinning. Though granted, they probably thought we would go wild over Moriarty instead of Mary

Last edited by Lola Red (February 2, 2015 7:10 pm)

**Posted by SusiGo** February 2, 2015 7:27 pm

Human error.

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 2, 2015 7:28 pm

I hope that in the long run, they have something better, bigger in mind with Mary than just keeping us busy. And I still doubt that we will end loving her, but that could be just me.

Though I am really grateful to have her. She makes fanfics so much more interesting to wrte and read.

Last edited by Schmiezi (February 2, 2015 7:29 pm)

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 2, 2015 8:00 pm

Because there is something to Johnlock that touches so many people's romantic hearts I'd say.

But I am interested in your opinion: What could an interesting John/Mary fanfic be about?

Last edited by Schmiezi (February 2, 2015 8:01 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** February 2, 2015 8:15 pm

I think the thing with Snape was that he was flagged up as being a character who was going to look evil, but really wasn't that bad in the end. I would have been surprised and disappointed if he'd turned out to be plain evil, because I didn't think he was set up that way.

Mary isn't a mirror of that (a seemingly good character who turns out to be evil in the end) because we haven't got to the end yet. We've had both sides, and I don't feel it's nearly as clear as it was with Snape which way she's going to go. Anything we've seen and anything that's been said in commentaries, etc., is about Mary now ... the twist is yet to come and could be that she's really, really evil (I still like the idea of her as an archvillain) or that she's really good and had reasons for what she did all along. I don't get the feeling that I did with Snape that I'm sure which way it's going to go.

The other alternative is that there's no further twist - that she's just Mary, all is forgiven, and John and Mary carry on as "normal". I think that would actually be the biggest twist, because I don't think it's what I'd expect from Moftiss.

**Posted by Schmiezi** February 3, 2015 5:30 am

Swanpride wrote:
To clarify, I don't necessarily mean that a story has to be focussed on the romance aspect. I don't even need Mary to have an important role, it can simply be a case fic which is focussed mainly on John and sherlock. Though I found some gems which explore the possibility of the constellation.
One I liked, but sadly wasn't updated after the first two chapters, was an attempt to tell what happened after the Tarmac, with Sherlock forcefully moving Mary and John to Baker Street for their security (they are not exactly happy).
Another one which was really great featuring Mycroft and Mary getting attacked (the target is Mycroft), resulting in Mary getting hurt and Mycroft having to lay low until he can contact his people safely with Baby Watson.
A really great one featured Sherlock, John and Mary on a mission together, with John and Mary giving Sherlock cover.
But those kinds of gems are really hard to find.

I'd love to continue this discussion, Swanpride, but IMO it would be off topic. I have made a new thread for it, see here:
http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=209082#p209082

**Posted by SusiGo** February 3, 2015 7:30 am

Thank you, Schmiezi.

**Posted by Zatoichi** February 6, 2015 10:13 am

Lola Red wrote:
Zatoichi wrote:
Your post just made me think.. do you think there might have been another choice for Sherlock to keep all three save as he vowed to do except almost forcing Mary back into their relationship?
Interesting question. It seemed to me he left the decision to continue the relationship mostly up to John. If Mary would have accepted a “I will help you as a client, but I will divorce you as my wife” or spiralled back to being a loose cannon depends on whether she is more motivated by “no one can know” or by “I cannot loose John”.

To continue this interesting discussion, I just found this interview with Amanda, which sounds a lot like Mary´s main motivation is the fear of losing John - "If she loses him, she loses everything.":
http://skulls-and-tea.tumblr.com/post/87558048071/interviewer-theres-such-an-interesting-duality

So I really can´t see how she would have quietly accepted an "I will help you as a client, but I will divorce you as my wife".. obviously she feels without John she´d have nothing (her child doesn´t seem to come into account here..) So yeah, to me it looks terribly like there was no other choice than to take her back for now in order to defuse the cannon.. which is probably one of the reasons I find myself not overly touched by their unconditional love and forgiveness.

(The interview also at the same time adds more evidence that Mary is basically laid out as "fallen girl who needs to be saved by the love of a good man".. .. ..I have feelings about that, but here´s probably not the place.)

**Posted by Vhanja** February 6, 2015 10:40 am

I for one don't think there will be more twists in the Mary-story. We first got to know this charming, but seemingly strong woman who loved John (and he loved her back). We have a lovely wedding, she's pregnant and apart from where that leaves Sherlock, people are happy.

Or so we think.

Then HLV comes and John isn't happy, and we get the huge twist with Mary, wondering if she's actually a villain. Shooting Sherlock, almost killing him, what is her backstory, what happens, will John know, what will he do?

I felt that when John had his little speech to Mary in front of the Holmes fireplace, throwing the memory stick in the flames, that story arch was over. Writing-wise, it would make no sense to then come up with yet another twist going "Oh, wait! Fooled you again - she really IS bad!"

That doesn't seem like good writing to me.

Last edited by Vhanja (February 6, 2015 10:40 am)