nakahara wrote:

John was probably the only exception being safe from her. 

Yes, but only because she did not have to make a dramatic devil/deep blue sea decision.
I don't know what she would have done in case there had been the need to decide for/against John in order to protect her selfish self.

Hopefully yes.

La Jolie wrote:

Liberty, I agree with you that Sherlock was saving himself as much as he was saving John and Mary by setting the trap and revealing her true self to John. He certainly wasn't safe (again, from his POV) as long as he was the only one who knew who shot him. But if he really wanted to put himself first, why not call Lestrade or Mycroft or whoever else would have had the power to neutralise Mary and place Sherlock under 24/7 protection? He could easily have done that. But he didn't, firstly because he's Sherlock and he always wants to play the game according to his own rules, and secondly also because he didn't want to be safe at the expense of John's utter ruin (which is what exposing Mary to the authorities would have amounted to). So it's really both about himself and John - he's killing two birds with one stone. And because it was also about John he had to do it in this highly dramatic and insanely unhealthy way.



Talking about this scene in 221b, has anyone realised that the three of them are conducting this discussion while Mary (presumably) still has a loaded gun in her pocket/handbag? That took some nerve, didn't it? Almost in the same league as scratching the back of your head with a loaded gun in TGG...
 

I hadn't thought about the gun, to be honest.  I suppose it's unlikely that she'd shoot because she'd risk losing John.  I just thought it was odd that Mary had the memory stick on her person (why would she have needed to go meet/kill Sherlock?).

He does seem focused on getting John to continue his relationship with Mary, rather than keeping John safe.  (As you say, getting Mycroft involved could keep both of them safe).   Mary's "I will never let that happen", I took to mean John knowing about her secret, but it also could mean John leaving her ... which is a lot more sinister.  But if Sherlock thought Mary was such a risk to John, he wouldn't want them together (might as well let Magnusson do his worst).  So yes, he seems to want them to stay together partly for John's sake.  And his vow, I suppose.  He does give John the chance to make his own judgment, and it's John's choice to keep Mary's secret (even from himself in part). 

silverblaze wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

silverblaze wrote:

The reason why he helped her, I think, is because she saved him. 

I am having problems with seeing Mary's actions as "saving Sherlock". How, by only shooting him a little? I mean, it's a bit like starting a fire and then "saving" everyone by calling the fire department.

Yes, and that's how he knew she was still on his side. What's so mysterious about that? 

The point is that had she refrained from shooting him at all, he would not have been in need for her "help".

Come on, a little shooting in the chest didn't hurt anyone so far.

I'm saying it again: As we can see, it was John who saved his life. The John he had in his heart, his John.

Harriet wrote:

Come on, a little shooting in the chest didn't hurt anyone so far.

I'm saying it again: As we can see, it was John who saved his life. The John he had in his heart, his John.

This. ^^

silverblaze wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

silverblaze wrote:

The reason why he helped her, I think, is because she saved him. 

I am having problems with seeing Mary's actions as "saving Sherlock". How, by only shooting him a little? I mean, it's a bit like starting a fire and then "saving" everyone by calling the fire department.

Yes, and that's how he knew she was still on his side. What's so mysterious about that? The point is that in the few seconds after he was shot he wouldn't have had time to analyze and gather information, so at that point he still believed John was in danger. Remember that he also didn't know that she was letting him live. That changed after she showed him how well she could shoot, convincing him that it wasn't a mistake that he was still alive. That is why he tells John to trust her later on. 

Yes, you're absolutely right about that, thank you!  I hadn't thought it through enough.   He thinks John is in danger at that point (when he loses consciousness), walking into a room where Mary is armed and shooting.  By time he regains consciousness in hospital, that particular risk has gone. 

I still find it hard to believe that Sherlock believed Mary didn't shoot to kill (given that he almost died).  But I agree that his fear for John in the mind palace is in the moment, not reasoned.  As far as he knows Mary is just about to shoot John too.   When he's awake and John's alive, he can come to another theory about Mary. 

maryagrawatson wrote:

To me, the absolute most blood chilling scene in all nine episodes is Mary visiting Sherlock in hospital to tell him to keep quiet. He doesn't know anything yet about her, just that she blindsided him, shot him, and that he's so doped up he can barely see, much less defend himself. He needs John to know that Mary did this if only to protect himself.

Mary

I find that scene chilling too.  It does make me feel that Mary meant to kill him (her regret at having to shoot him in Magnusson's office could well be regret because she believes he's going to die), but whether she did or not, it's a very scary scene.  I think she is a serious risk to him, hence the urgency in letting John know. 
 

Last edited by Liberty (September 8, 2014 8:05 pm)

Her threats come only after she has shot the coin, not before. And what I really hate about that scene is her contemptuously kicking the coin over to him so he has to bend and pick it up. 

nakahara wrote:

I too percieved her as chillingly threatening in this scene.
She was beyond desperate now, this was her last chance to stop Sherlock - so her every word sounded like a serious death-threat to me.

Yes, indeed. She only gets desperate the moment she realises that John has witnessed everything. 

Yes, like in canon.