SusiGo wrote:

But why should he play act for his brother? Of course he could have told Mycroft that it was Irene's body but why on earth should he pretend to be sad and take the cigarette?
 

Not just Why?, but also How? Mycroft is better in deducing than Sherlock. How is Sherlock supposed to pretend in Mycroft's company?

Well, Mycroft almost tricks Sherlock into getting the phone.  It's not really the photos of the Royal that are the issue, and I'm sure Mycroft knows that but he doesn't tell Sherlock what he thinks is there.   Later on, Mycroft tells Sherlock to stay away from Irene, and Sherlock does not seem to be pleased at all about that.  So I think there is an element of brotherly rivalry and rebellion going on.  I think Sherlock does manage to fool Mycroft this time (because he asks John to keep an eye on him), although I'm not certain.  (Possibly Mycroft plays along - it's odd that he doesn't go all out looking for the phone.  Also odd that he doesn't question how Sherlock knows Irene would be dead.  I think that maybe he knows Sherlock has the phone and that he's probably the best person to get into it).  Sherlock also seems to fool Mycroft at the end too, when he saves Irene (although again, it's possible that Mycroft knows and goes along with it).  There's definitely a possibility that Mycroft knows when to step back and let Sherlock get on with his stuff.  (He misjudges the situation though, and apologises at the end for that).

Anyway, I just don't think it's possible that Sherlock wouldn't be able identify the body, and once you've eliminated the impossible ...  If I watch the scenes with that in mind, they do seem to fit. 

I agree about Sherlock continually asking forgiveness from John.  I just don't like it, for a number of reasons. 

Sherlock has already called John his friend in THOB, so that is established, and he's got to be John's best friend - who else could be?  John barely sees Mike, and only sees Greg with Sherlock.  The best friend bit is obvious.  The truth is that he's more than a best friend. 

SusiGo wrote:

Well, of course he is more than a best friend. We have whole threads about this subject. 

 
Otherwise known as the place of ultimate happiness. 

Mattlocked wrote:

Zatoichi wrote:

"Here´s Sherlock manipulating/ playing the sociopath again".
 

 
Any special scene in mind or the whole episode?

Nothing that has to do with his feelings towards John, they are very genuine I think. But for example how he made Archie cooperate or how he first made his audience think he is about to give the worst wedding speech ever just to turn it around into the most moving thing on earth that had even John nearly crying etc.. might have been deliberate. (I didn´t mean manipulate in a negative sense, just that he wasn´t as.. naive? clumsy..? about it all as he seemed to be at first view..)

I read tons of meta and interviews with people involved and I realize this is probably "wrong" (as in not intended), but I enjoy it a lot more this way so I´m gonna stick with it.  
 

Zatoichi wrote:

I read tons of meta and interviews with people involved and I realize this is probably "wrong" (as in not intended), but I enjoy it a lot more this way so I´m gonna stick with it.  
 

Funny. I enjoy S3 because for me, Sherlock is becoming less and less the maipulating sociopath he pretends to be in the beginning.

Edit: Just realized that I cross posted with Susi. Only she found better words to explain how I feel.

Last edited by Schmiezi (August 13, 2014 5:55 pm)

IMO Sherlock is a brilliant visual observer, good to understand puzzles in words but pretty rubbish to interpret the emotions behind the words, which we normally pick (some more easy, some less). So when John tells him in TEH that he is the best man he ever know, John means a lot more with thte words but Sherlock understand just that, he doesn't see all the emotional luggage. He relys on John to tell him what emotions his words are provoking ("Not good?" "a bit not good"). He needs to feel Irene's pulse to know that she fell for him? John had seen it at the first glance. 

When John ask him about the best man, John expects from Sherlock that he picks the clues, but no, he has to finish the sentence. It may be that Sherlock has no idea how one feel as a "best friend", if he hasn't have any close friends before, he has no comparation grade to update in his mind someone from friend to best friend and to have expectations to be upgraded by someone to "best friend".

I don't feel that he plays himself down or that he has low esteem. I feel more that he has not the experience - he thought that feelings are just in his way and he tryed to avoid them, now he discovers that they play an importnat role. He didn't wanted emotional bonds so each emotional bond he now experience, be it John, be it Irene, is for him a learning process. For him is easier to fake a relationship than to really be in one. When he fakes he goes for all cliche and what he read in the books, but when he have to asssert his relationship with the other people, he has his problems. 

I have my problem with  Sherlock development in TSoT , because is too much, too quick. We still have in TEH the arrogant Sherlock, clueless at John's pain range and triking him to believe that he will die because of the bomb and in the next episode, he is all over emotional. 

If he chneges, i want to seen it on screen, not to think that between TEH and TSot he had realised what his fall mean for the others.

And this quick development in his character makes me think that we will get only S4 ans S5, as i don't think that the writers will get further with the serie when Sherlock's arch is completed. We are in S3 and both Sherlock and John told their love, establish the "best friends" thing. Now, where we will can go further too much? Sherlock still has a few steps to do, perhaps really falling in love and havind a relationship if the writers want one in any way, John has also to battle his demons, but after that?

I don't have this feeling. If these series were a detective one, like Midsomer murders, would have been true. But is a series about a detective and he can develop only to a degree.... 

What do you all mean?
Best speech ever.
I stood up and cheered at Sherlock's views on marraige and religion which match my own!

Last edited by besleybean (August 13, 2014 6:35 pm)

Schmiezi wrote:

A lovely light wrote:

We are in S3 and both Sherlock and John told their love, establish the "best friends" thing. Now, where we will can go further too much? Sherlock still has a few steps to do, perhaps really falling in love and havind a relationship if the writers want one in any way, John has also to battle his demons, but after that?

Um, yes, we have this OTHER thread that kind of answers that question ...
http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=4862

Muhahahhaaaa....

Sadly, the more a rewatch S3, the less i see it being there or happening in the future.