This conversation has evolved in ways I didn't think possible.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

We also said, "imagine if John and Mary's baby was actually Mrs Hudson".

Bless you. 
 

besleybean wrote:

To be fair, Moffat is up for a crossover and I would like that too...only I wish it had been with Matt!

I do remember someone up there (Was it Moffat or Gatiss..?) saying it'd be a bad idea because it would mess with everything Sherlock sees as reality and absolutely break his compartmentalised and organised big mind. 

besleybean wrote:

That's what I believed the situation was, but I just saw an article tonight saying different...will try and post it, if I can find it again!

Well, my dream DW crossover would involve Ten and a much younger Sherlock. That's my headcanon for why Sherlock deleted the solar system... because he held the whole universe in his hands once, and then the Doctor didn't come back. 

That's waaaay off topic, hehe. Back to baby. 

BreathingIsBoring wrote:

besleybean wrote:

That's what I believed the situation was, but I just saw an article tonight saying different...will try and post it, if I can find it again!

Well, my dream DW crossover would involve Ten and a much younger Sherlock. That's my headcanon for why Sherlock deleted the solar system... because he held the whole universe in his hands once, and then the Doctor didn't come back. 

That's waaaay off topic, hehe. Back to baby. 

Wow. I LOVE that headcanon.
 

Personally I think they'll have to get eliminate the baby somehow. I don't mean that in a crude way, just a reality. It's like in Rizzoli and Isles just recently, if anyone follows that, a crime show--one of the main characters gets impregnanted and after a few episodes of morning sickness, she risks her life and has a miscarriage. Before her meternal insincts could begin to override her need for adventure and guns and killing bad guys. I think it's the same for Mary. Maybe she's changed a bit but not really, and she's not the mothering type. The baby was not intentional, they were just having sex and it happened. How can Sherlock and Watson go on horribly dangerous, adventures when they need to pick up baby formula? It doesn't make sense, story-wise. It will be another tragic loss for Watson though, and Mary will probably be killed off too, though she seems to be fitting in okay, being a cold blooded assasin and all. But a baby? A baby needs diapers, blankets and a safe enviroment. Not someone shootng holes in the wall and so much more. Dagerous men come into that flat (and yes I know Mary and Watson are living elsewhere? ATM but still, those men could just as easily show up there). 

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

A lovely light wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Again, I'd like to come up with the question of WHY it exists.

And I don't mean "Because of sex". I mean, why did the writers decide to include it first place? Surely not to lead to being no problem, because they could have "no problem" without it. Ideas?

This.

The writters must have a plan, because they knew that a baby would change dramatically the balance in 221b. My question is also Why and how they will deal with this.... 

They could have made Mary to misscariage and so to becaome loads of sympathy and support. But they go with the baby, so this is for me the only thing i cannot speculate how it would possibly go.

Yeah, this is the question I'm interested in too. I was talking about this at a Sherlockian meet up the other day, and we were all wondering why they chose to do it....because obviously it would have been a lot easier to kill her off if she hadn't had a baby. We were hoping they do actually have some kind of plan and haven't just written themselves into a corner because they wanted the "sign of three" gag.
 

 
I honestly think that this baby was only introduced as a plot device for John to not leave Mary once she had shot Sherlock. If you think about it, do you really think that John would have stayed with Mary if she wasn't pregnant? The pregnancy makes John feel obligated to be responsible for his child and gives him a "reason" to forgive her. If it weren't for the baby, John would have never gone back to her, in my opinion. Shooting Sherlock is pretty unforgivable, I would think. But throw a baby in the mix and suddenly it's a whole other story. Now, what I don't know is why the writers needed him to forgive her and go back to her in the first place, but I suppose that will play out in season 4.

Zatoichi wrote:

shycroft wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Yeah, this is the question I'm interested in too. I was talking about this at a Sherlockian meet up the other day, and we were all wondering why they chose to do it....because obviously it would have been a lot easier to kill her off if she hadn't had a baby. We were hoping they do actually have some kind of plan and haven't just written themselves into a corner because they wanted the "sign of three" gag.
 

 
I honestly think that this baby was only introduced as a plot device for John to not leave Mary once she had shot Sherlock. If you think about it, do you really think that John would have stayed with Mary if she wasn't pregnant? The pregnancy makes John feel obligated to be responsible for his child and gives him a "reason" to forgive her. If it weren't for the baby, John would have never gone back to her, in my opinion. Shooting Sherlock is pretty unforgivable, I would think. But throw a baby in the mix and suddenly it's a whole other story. Now, what I don't know is why the writers needed him to forgive her and go back to her in the first place, but I suppose that will play out in season 4.

I agree 100%.
 

Me, too. 
 

Do you think he finds her more exciting, after he finds out about her, and that makes him reluctant to leave?  Secretly?  Maybe subconsciously? I don't see that on screen, but we don't get a proper look at his process of coming to terms with it and what leads up to the Christmas scene.  Just wondering at the moment. 

So I know that John says he's forgiven her, but to me the forgiveness scene just didn't sit well with me. Theres two different theories swirling around in my head.

1. John really has, in his mind, forgiven her.

or

2. His forgiveness is utter BS, and part of a larger plan we don't know about. Let me explain:
John has serious trust issues. We learned this from the very first episode. The fall and Sherlock's return certainly didn't help matters much. And as of his wedding John is still seeing his therapist (could be for many reasons but we are told over and over again that he has big trust issues). And here John is not knowing who his wife is, essentially. He doesn't know her real name, where she's from, nothing about her family or past. All he really knows is that she used to be a trained assassin. It is DEFINATELY a larger scale lie than Sherlock's fake suicide, and I don't think Sherlock's lie and Mary's lie are seen as equals in John's eyes on terms of being able to forgive (as someone mentioned above). John did struggle to forgive Sherlock in TEH. It was a huge betrayal of trust, despite how much he'd missed Sherlock, and John has a hard time getting past that. Didn't he say, "I don't care how you did it, I want to know why." John eventually does get the whole truth of why, as shown in his blog (link here: http://www.johnwatsonblog.co.uk/blog/07november). John does say "of course I forgive you" at the end if TEH, in what he believes are his dying moments, but this is clearly a huge, huge deal for John and again a massive setback in terms of his trust issues. But I think he truly did forgive Sherlock, and knowing WHY he did it really helped him with that. It was justified in John's eyes. But after spending months apart from Mary to come to terms with her enormous betrayal... we're supposed to believe that John just tosses out the hard drive supposedly containing her history, essentially tells her they've get a clean slate, he doesn't care what she's done -- which according to her could put her in away for LIFE -- no no no, Trust Issues Watson doesn't care about her past that is even at this moment threatening her safety, his safety, and their unborn child's safety (because Magnussen has already made it clear he knows what Mary's done and could expose her to the enemies she's made). It's not just unbelievable to me that John would swallow all this and try to move on with a clean slate, it's also frankly downright irresponsible and dangerous for a father to be. So to me, it's such bullshit. JOHN HAS TRUST ISSUES. He wants to know who he's married to, he wants to know who's carrying his child. He wants to know what Mary's done that led to something as drastic as assuming a false identity for five years, threatening a media mogul at gunpoint, and shooting and nearly killing a man who offered to help her. John wants to know WHY, just like he wanted to know with Sherlock. And that's why he came with "prepared words, words chosen with care." Rehearsed. Carefully chosen words that are part of a larger plan we'll see unfold in series four?

Yes, me too! I have the same thoughts/feelings towards the Christmas scene.

Someone on tumblr also pointed out that John has a stubble on Christmas, and while he clearly found it necessary to shave before going to 221b to meet Sherlock in TEH (whom he had not forgiven yet at that point) he didn´t feel the need before getting back together with his wife after months of silence .  I don´t take that point too seriously, but still I find it an interesting observation and it speaks for the state of mind he´s in - not exactly "fresh start" and "clean slate".