I personally think that the best solution to the baby problem would be if Mary had an affair. Honestly, that David guy was  introduced in TSOT, and was given a good 2-3 minutes screen time. Sherlock was basically trying to 'scare him off' of interacting with Mary in any way. After all, they used to be lovers. To me, this makes me think that Sherlock felt some sort of obligation to warn him off because he believed, to some extent, that Mary COULD cheat on John. He wouldn't waste his time threatening him otherwise. I know some of you may think that this scene was just a bit of comic relief, but whenever something in this show strikes me as "funny" I sometimes think the writers are just trying to distract us from a deeper meaning (they're master's of subtext after all). Plus, as I've already mentioned, David had a good 2-3 minutes allotted to him. This is a 90-minute show where virtually every minute counts. It may not seem like a lot but if they were aiming for just a bit of comic relief they would've figured out another way to do it that wouldn't take up so much time. This makes me think that David might be a little more important than we're led to believe. He was introduced and then his character "arc" kind of just fizzled out at the end with little payoff. I think we're going to be seeing him again, possibly as the father to Mary's baby.

I'm really, really worried about Baby Watson, too, and in more than one way. Any scenario that I can imagine is somehow flawed and NOT what I want to see.

Concerning the idea of John not being the father, I totally don't buy that. Mary may be a very good liar otherwise but her love for John strikes me as genuine, seeing what she's willing to do to keep him. The mere amount of screentime given to David doesn't necessarily argue his importance. But my main objection to cheating!Mary is that it would be so terribly mundane. I mean, TSOT and HLV are so full of grand emotions, and in the end Sherlock basically throws away his own life in order to make John and Mary happy. I can't believe it will turn out simply not worth the sacrifice because Mary was a cheat anyway. It just wouldn't do justice to  the scale of the story. You don't get Sherlock Holmes sacrificing himself to make you happy, and then you just split up.

But if the child is truly John's, then what's going to happen?

 I can't just see Mary and the baby fading into the background while John and Sherlock are still out there having adventures. I mean, I can see Mary being happy to be a stay-at-home mum for a change, after all she's been through, but I can't see John not wanting to do his share in looking after the kid, and I can't see him still taking insane risks when he's got a child depending on him. He's addicted to danger but he's not totally irresponsible. I can maybe see him juggling to balance all of that for one or two episodes (which may even have a comedy aspect to it) but not forever.

Like many other fans, I believe that John belongs in 221b, and I do feel that Mary is getting between the two of them (much as I like her BBC version). So yes, I'm afraid that at some point Mary will have to go.

But I can't see John as a single father either - he'd be good at it, but then it simply would not allow him to have any more adventures with Sherlock, and that would end the series very quickly. And I don't want him to send the child away either to live with someone else (who???)  and then just go on like he was still a childless bachelor. That would be extremely irresponsible, too.

So does it mean the baby will have to go, too? But I mean, how cruel is that?

I think if I were the writers, I'd go for the old-fashioned (and probably ACD canon) solution and have both Mary and the baby die in childbed. It still happens, you know. And it would be the lesser of two evils for John if he never really had a proper family life, compared to him getting a lovely family life first and then having it taken away again.

But then, I don't know if that makes sense, narratively. They're just spend two episodes doing little else than building up John/Mary/Baby in the most spectacular way. Are they really going to blow this all to pieces again so soon?

 

Last edited by La Jolie (August 6, 2014 11:40 am)

I do think the only way 'out'. as it were...is for something to happen to Mary after the birth.
Or if it transpired the baby is not John's.

Possible...
But it would have to mean that John and Mary haven't been in close proximity at all...and I thought by the end of HLV they had been.
Oh and John can't have been with her for the scan.

Last edited by besleybean (August 6, 2014 12:15 pm)

SusiGo wrote:

Just found this thread again and would to throw in the option that has not been mentioned so far. I know it is quite improbable but the advantage would be that is offers a simple solution without killing a baby. Because there might be no baby at all. 

Remember - in Canon A.G.R.A. was an empty box, a non-existing treasure. In the show A.G.R.A. is the name of Mary who might be empty as well, i.e. not pregnant. 

I am in no way convinced of this possibility but here are some arguments for it:

- The symptoms Sherlock deduces in TSoT are easy to fake. And it seems John either did not see them before or they were not there when he was around. 
- Mary repeatedly tries to manipulate Sherlock or enjoys showing him that she is more observant than John where Sherlock is concerned. 
- A woman's body does not change much so early into the pregnancy. 
- There is not really much time between the wedding and the events of HLV. We have no idea if John and Mary live together even for one day after she shot Sherlock. 
- In the scene in Magnussen's office she is wearing a very tight-fitting suit. And we do not know how she entered the office but it might have necessitated climbing or other dangerous physical actions. 
 

I think this is my favorite solution of all Susi.  Seems it would cause the least trama for John.  I want to see John get cold and angry at Mary.  Not be devestated like when Sherlock fell.
 

tonnaree wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

Just found this thread again and would to throw in the option that has not been mentioned so far. I know it is quite improbable but the advantage would be that is offers a simple solution without killing a baby. Because there might be no baby at all. 

Remember - in Canon A.G.R.A. was an empty box, a non-existing treasure. In the show A.G.R.A. is the name of Mary who might be empty as well, i.e. not pregnant. 

I am in no way convinced of this possibility but here are some arguments for it:

- The symptoms Sherlock deduces in TSoT are easy to fake. And it seems John either did not see them before or they were not there when he was around. 
- Mary repeatedly tries to manipulate Sherlock or enjoys showing him that she is more observant than John where Sherlock is concerned. 
- A woman's body does not change much so early into the pregnancy. 
- There is not really much time between the wedding and the events of HLV. We have no idea if John and Mary live together even for one day after she shot Sherlock. 
- In the scene in Magnussen's office she is wearing a very tight-fitting suit. And we do not know how she entered the office but it might have necessitated climbing or other dangerous physical actions. 
 

I think this is my favorite solution of all Susi.  Seems it would cause the least trama for John.  I want to see John get cold and angry at Mary.  Not be devestated like when Sherlock fell.
 

 
Mmmmhh, that would be an "elegant" solution indeed. But at the end of HLV at the tarmac when Sherlock tells John his whole name, John said they had a scan. He said "We had a scan." not "Mary had a scan". That sounds to me as if John had been present at the examination.

Oops, double posting. Sorry.

Last edited by stoertebeker (August 6, 2014 1:00 pm)

I know, this is all theory, but let me play the devil's advocate:

First of all we should not forget how Irene managed to trick Sherlock and Mycroft, the cleverest men in Britain.

And Mary is not exactly an idiot either. I am no technician but I assume it should be possible to call up a somebody else's file on a scan while examining Mary. Especially if John were not suspecting anything going on. I suppose if the child had the right size for her age John would believe he was seeing his daughter. And Mary is a nurse and might be acquainted with medical technology as well. And she managed to create a new identity for herself so I would not put this past her. 

The question is where this is going to lead. We still have no idea if Mary has a plan other than marrying the man she loves and creating a family with him. If not, this makes no sense. But if she has another agenda or is working for Moriarty or someone else, this might be just possible.  
 

Yes. you have a point there. Although to me "we had a scan" does not necessarily mean he was present. I suppose the tarmac scene happens not very long after Christmas. So we do not know for sure when the scan happened. If it was before Christmas, we can safely assume he was not present.
But still - the one short sentence about the scan is about the only evidence against a fake pregnancy, isn't it? 

As I said, it makes absolutely no sense if we assume that Mary and John just met and fell in love without any hidden agenda. Something we do not know and may only learn in series 4. 

However, there are people who think it cannot be coincidence that she met John but that she targeted  him for a reason, was appointed his guardian in some way, was placed next to him by Moriarty or someone else … As I said, it is all theory. But we should remember how often John, Sherlock and other character have been targeted by professional snipers/assassins. And then he meets such a person and marries her. What do we say about coincidence? 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (August 6, 2014 2:48 pm)

I can see neither the point in faking the pregancy (it is, after all, an illusion you can't keep going forever) nor the technical possibility once John and Mary had got back together. They got married in May and HLV is set around Christmas, so she would have been way into the third trimester by then. Impossible at that stage to make your naked body look pregnant to your husband while you really aren't.


Drugging a pregnant woman may not be a good idea generally but it's not medically impossible. Pregnant women have all sorts of emergency surgery requiring anaesthetics, and the one Billy gave them at the Holmes's house was not a very long-lasting and therefore mild one. It remains morally very questionable but it's really not proof for or against Mary's pregnancy.


Even if Mary was somehow set on by someone else (be it only initially or still), why fake a pregnancy? What would "they" want from John? Access to his house, access to his person, access to his computer, access to Sherlock, Mary gained all that even before marrying him, so what does that scheme (if it exists) need a wedding, let alone a baby for?

 

Last edited by La Jolie (August 6, 2014 3:32 pm)