BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Sherlock's deductions about Mary

**Posted by Mattlocked** July 28, 2014 9:49 am

Just found that guardian also means German "Vormund" ("legal guardian") - and then I found this in the comments in the link I posted above. So maybe it's nothing about the newspaper or Mary being, but having, a guardian?

One point I would like to add, the focus on the word ‘Guardian’. Mary is an orphan (or so she says). Perhaps CAM is or was her Guardian, hence why she looked so uncomfortable during the telegram read outs?

http://myrenaissanceblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/who-is-mary-morstan/

But then again: She left her past behind and took a strangers name - so is she really an orphan?

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 28, 2014 9:50 am)

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 28, 2014 1:37 pm

Liberty wrote:
I also thought that size 12 meant he thought Mary was a dress size 12, but she's obviously a 10 at most. Strange, when he got Irene's measurements exactly! Unless size 12 doesn't mean dress size.

I was surprised by that too. I know that a UK size 12 is a US size 10, and that still doesn't seem right for her. I'm a US size 6-8, which would be a UK size 8-10 if my Googling is correct. I'm not a small gal. I'm just a smidge taller than Martin Freeman, so I have a point of comparison when I look at Mary with him and think that she's tiny. So I think Sherlock got her size wrong.

Mary

**Posted by besleybean** July 28, 2014 1:41 pm

She could be a 12, I've no idea!
I'm sure they just gave Amanda's own size, why not?
A 12 is tiny to me!

**Posted by SusiGo** July 28, 2014 2:07 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Just found that guardian also means German "Vormund" ("legal guardian") - and then I found this in the comments in the link I posted above. So maybe it's nothing about the newspaper or Mary being, but having, a guardian?

One point I would like to add, the focus on the word ‘Guardian’. Mary is an orphan (or so she says). Perhaps CAM is or was her Guardian, hence why she looked so uncomfortable during the telegram read outs?

http://myrenaissanceblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/who-is-mary-morstan/

But then again: She left her past behind and took a strangers name - so is she really an orphan?

Maybe she is not. But let us not forget CAM's wedding telegram alluding to her family, something that has never been explained so far. "Could have seen this" for me implies that they are dead but we do not know if they died of natural causes, had an accident, were murdered and if and how Mary was connected to this.

Last edited by SusiGo (July 28, 2014 2:08 pm)

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 28, 2014 2:33 pm

besleybean wrote:
She could be a 12, I've no idea!
I'm sure they just gave Amanda's own size, why not?
A 12 is tiny to me!

I would think they would give Amanda's size, too, but I really don't buy that she's a UK size 12. She's so petite and thin, plus she's an actress and in that world, that size is very much in the unacceptable range. Again, I'm comparing to myself, whom no one would mistake for petite and thin and yet is a UK size 8/10, so her being a UK 12 just doesn't jive for me.

Mary

**Posted by besleybean** July 28, 2014 2:38 pm

Well this is really not my area, so I'll back out and let the fashion experts continue!

**Posted by Liberty** July 28, 2014 3:08 pm

Well, for comparism, Irene Adler's measurements would maker her about a UK size 6. (It varies from shop to shop. She'd be a 4 in some shops). Mary has a slightly bigger build and a bigger bust, but not enough to take her right up to a 12.

Mary, I agree that 12 would (sadly) be unacceptable for most actresses (unless they were very tall, or character actresses). Amanda just doesn't look that big.

**Posted by besleybean** July 28, 2014 4:11 pm

Ok, sorry, apparently I lied!
Can I just say I'm feeling a tad uncomfortable about this discussion?
I live in the real world and know how the acting business pressurises women to conform to a stereotype....
But I'm sure the BBC Sherlock team are not that bad.
And really, as a feminist I'm finding even the sugegstion for a size 12 as big, as being a little objectifying.

**Posted by SusiGo** July 28, 2014 4:21 pm

Well, we have a different size system in Germany but I apart from that - I always liked the choice of Sherlock actresses because they do not fit into any stereotypical patterns of slimness, height, age or skin colour.
(And did they change the size system? I can remember a time as a teenager when I was really, really slim and just fit in size 10).

Last edited by SusiGo (July 28, 2014 4:22 pm)

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 28, 2014 4:33 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Well, we have a different size system in Germany but I apart from that - I always liked the choice of Sherlock actresses because they do not fit into any stereotypical patterns of slimness, height, age or skin colour.

Indeed! I'm pretty sure that someone like Loo Brealey couldn't have a role like Molly in American TV. I'm thinking in particular of the scene in TEH just before Sherlock kisses her after the case. She's sweaty, her hair is stringy, she's not wearing makeup, and her clothes are a mess. I find that absolutely refreshing! This is one of the reasons I prefer UK TV over US and even Canadian TV, more 'normal' people on screen.

Mary

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 28, 2014 4:39 pm

besleybean wrote:
Ok, sorry, apparently I lied!
Can I just say I'm feeling a tad uncomfortable about this discussion?
I live in the real world and know how the acting business pressurises women to conform to a stereotype....
But I'm sure the BBC Sherlock team are not that bad.
And really, as a feminist I'm finding even the sugegstion for a size 12 as big, as being a little objectifying.

As I said in my previous comment, BBC has a much firmer grip on what real people look like and actually put real looking people in their shows. Well, except for Lara Pulver as Irene Adler, but I think that was the point.

As for a size 12 being considered big, that's a societal thing over here in the Americas. Don't know bad how it is in the UK. Over here, size discussion is crazy and appalling, especially in the US, which is having an obesity epidemic that constrasts sharply with the body shapes in their entertainment. Nobody here seems to know what a normal, healthy woman is supposed to look like (hint: Amanda Abbington, Lou Brealey, Vinette Robinson...).

Mary

**Posted by Liberty** July 28, 2014 5:21 pm

Unfortunately, there is sizeism in the UK too, and in acting in general, from what I've seen. How often do you see an overweight female lead/romance? Hardly ever, with a few notable exceptions (Dawn French springs to mind). Of course, a size 12 isn't big in real life, but for an actress, it is. It has always been an issue.

If I'm being generous, it's just possible that the BBC were trying to be less sizeist by using a more average dress size for Mary. Do you think that was the intention? It doesn't work though, as we can see she's not a size 12. And it doesn't make sense that Sherlock would get that wrong, when he can guess measurements.

If I didn't really, really love Mark Gatiss in the part, I'd say it's a shame they missed a chance to have an overweight Mycroft! All the main actors and actresses are slim.

**Posted by besleybean** July 28, 2014 5:23 pm

To be fair, it was suggested to him that he played the part and they knew they were going to have to deal with his size!

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 28, 2014 6:09 pm

Liberty wrote:
If I'm being generous, it's just possible that the BBC were trying to be less sizeist by using a more average dress size for Mary. Do you think that was the intention? It doesn't work though, as we can see she's not a size 12. And it doesn't make sense that Sherlock would get that wrong, when he can guess measurements.

Yeah, I think it's a fail on Mark's part in trying to make Mary an average smallish woman. A UK 12 being a US 10 puts her at the high end of the 'regular' sizes. US 12/ UK 14 is the first 'plus' size on this side of the pond. I'm wearing a UK size 8 dress today and am having a really hard time believing that it wouldn't fit Amanda/Mary.

Mary