BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Possible "dark twists" in S4

**Posted by MartaSt** July 16, 2014 6:05 pm

Hahaha awesome, nakahara part of me really want to see that happening

**Posted by Bored-to-be-alive** July 16, 2014 7:15 pm

Brilliant!

**Posted by tobeornot221b** July 16, 2014 8:09 pm

Great idea, nakahara!
Solving crimes AND having dinner as well maybe.

**Posted by SolarSystem** July 16, 2014 8:26 pm

nakahara, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo...!!!! What about John? Will he be stuck with Mary forever?!

**Posted by nakahara** July 17, 2014 7:19 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
nakahara, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo...!!!! What about John? Will he be stuck with Mary forever?!

Well, it wouldn´t be a dark twist if all ended well for our pair, would it?
But don´t worry - John would devise an equally devilish plan how to win Sherlock back in S5.

**Posted by Morton** July 25, 2015 6:20 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
Schmiezi wrote:
maryagrawatson wrote:
There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories (...)
Seriously? Mentioned where?
Yes, there are two Moriartys - if not three:

"The stories give contradictory indications about Moriarty's family. In his first appearance in "The Final Problem", Moriarty is referred to as "Professor Moriarty" — no forename is mentioned. Watson does, however, refer to the name of another family member when he writes of "the recent letters in which Colonel James Moriarty defends the memory of his brother". In "The Adventure of the Empty House", Holmes refers to Moriarty on one occasion as "Professor James Moriarty". This is the only time Moriarty is given a first name, and oddly, it is the same as that of his purported brother; to wit The Valley of Fear (written after the preceding two stories, but set earlier), Holmes says of Professor Moriarty: "He is unmarried. His younger brother is a station master in the west of England."[12]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty

They could have Professor Robert Moriarty from William Gillette's stage play "Sherlock Holmes: a Drama in Four Acts" (1899)

**Posted by Whisky** July 25, 2015 8:51 pm

lol, nakahara... I never thought about it, but I think Jim would be the only crime-solving partner I could see in John's place :D They could go into pairs... Sherl and Jim against John and Mary, and let's see who solves it quicker/ offers the better puzzle. lol.

Last edited by Whisky (July 25, 2015 8:52 pm)

**Posted by nakahara** July 25, 2015 8:56 pm

Whisky wrote:
lol, nakahara... I never thought about it, but I think Jim would be the only crime-solving partner I could see in John's place :D They could go into pairs... Sherl and Jim against John and Mary, and let's see who solves it quicker/ offers the better puzzle. lol.

Good idea!

**Posted by Whisky** July 25, 2015 8:58 pm

but the odds are totally in Sherlocks and Jims favour because they wouldn't have to carry that baby round!
scnr

**Posted by nakahara** July 25, 2015 9:02 pm

Hmmm.... but if Sherlock and Jim would start quarreling about which one of them is superior, they would never stop. John and Mary can meanwhile slowly and lamely, but with perseverance, gradually solve the puzzles. Like a patient turtle who outran the careless rabbitt.

**Posted by Whisky** July 25, 2015 9:10 pm

nakahara wrote:
Like a patient turtle who outran the careless rabbitt.

I try to picture this. I fail :D

**Posted by nakahara** July 25, 2015 9:15 pm

Whisky wrote:
nakahara wrote:
Like a patient turtle who outran the careless rabbitt.
I try to picture this. I fail :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare

**Posted by Whisky** July 25, 2015 10:15 pm

?

sorry, that just sort of happened -

Last edited by Whisky (July 25, 2015 10:24 pm)

**Posted by Yitzock** July 25, 2015 10:49 pm

That is simultaneously hilarious and terrifying.

**Posted by nakahara** July 26, 2015 6:42 am

Whisky wrote:

?

sorry, that just sort of happened -

Hilarious!

**Posted by Whisky** July 31, 2015 12:30 am

I blame the umbrella. It was so very Mycroft-ish...
And the tea tray kept saying "Hudders, Hudders"

Last edited by Whisky (July 31, 2015 12:31 am)

**Posted by besleybean** September 21, 2016 7:04 pm

Ok some of us got into a conversation about S4, on the Convention thread.
I've been mulling things over, the last couple of days.
This recent musing began with a story on my Google Alerts for Benedict.
They are running a story that S4 will reveal Mary as working for Moriarty.
Now I know this is hardly the first time it's been mentioned and even I had considered this before...
But it's just with all this talk of dark twists, the cast crying when being told of the plans, Sherlock seemingly falling apart and possibly even bad effects on Mycroft.
Oh and there being a thread through from the beginning...
All this would fit with Mary working for Moriarty...is she his legacy?
I don't really like the idea of another big reveal for her, apart from the team going totally against Canon.
But of course it would give us a good meaty female character...though I dunno why she couldn't work for Mycroft.
But most of all, the theory really would work with Sherlock having his heart burned out.
Though I am aware that other scenarios could do this.
I did also believe the Xmas reconciliation scene...
But Sherlock was wrong footed by a female before, emotion got the better of him then...
Has it happened again?
For John's sake, has he made a huge error?
Could Mary be a double agent, working for Mycroft too?
Does somebody have some kind of hold over Mary
Or will her past just catch up with her?
Worst of all I worry if all of this would hasten the end of th show...although it wouldn't have to.

Last edited by besleybean (September 21, 2016 7:12 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** September 21, 2016 7:14 pm

I know...but I'm just wondering if any of my previous google alerts have blurted things like this before, that haven't happened...though maybe there just hasn't been as much speculation as over this series!

**Posted by besleybean** September 21, 2016 7:22 pm

It sounds an odd thing to say: but would it just be this?
I would personally still prefer that somebody dies 'tragically': i.e their past catching up with them or in crossfire etc...or preferably heroically, trying to protect/save somebody else etc and I would certainly want such a scenario for either Mary or Mycroft- if they have to die.
But how twisted do the team want to make this?
And what clues are there?
I suppose the clues they mentioned referred particularly to Sherlock...but women do outsmart him!
EDIT: I also feel that on 2 occasions Mycroft has warned Sherlock to stay away, once with Irene and so was the CAM warning linked to Mary? Another woman.
Does Mycroft allow the dangerous Mary to stay with John?
Or IS Sherock her target?
Did emotion get the better of her, as with Irene?

Last edited by besleybean (September 21, 2016 7:25 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** September 21, 2016 7:27 pm

I think that there's a suggestion in TAB that Mary is Moriarty, never mind just working for him - but it could be a red herring.

Yes, I think emotion getting the better of Sherlock is very possible and has precedent, but the thing with Mary is that that's already happened - he has misread her, then had a huge eyeopener and (you would imagine) been able to see things more clearly.   It doesn't quite make sense for him to still be making the same mistake.

Mary working for Moriarty previously does make sense - it has always seemed a bit of a coincidence that she just happened to be working with John, and it would explain what's on the memory stick that she feels would stop him loving her.   However, if it's on the memory stick, I don't think she can currently be working for Moriarty, because why would Mary let John see that? She'd know he'd turn her in right away to Sherlock.

There's also, the idea I know we've mentioned before, of Mary and Moriarty being twins. (It's never twins!).   Perhaps her original intent was revenge, or perhaps it was to take over Moriarty's work. But again, I don't know if she'd have that on the memory stick, and give it to John.

I have lots more thoughts ... not following this train of thought at all, but one thing that keeps sticking with me from TAB is that it seemed to me that Sherlock was investigating his own faked suicide rather than Moriarty's. It was Sherlock who stood at the top of the building and made a show of suicide, it was Sherlock who used a "fake" body, who used Molly (Hooper) to procure the body, etc. And then, also, at the end, when he's just shown how somebody can fake suicide, he says that he knows Moriarty is dead.