Posted by SusiGo June 6, 2014 2:39 pm | #121 |
Some really interesting thoughts, lil.
The Redbeard moment is telling as is his call to Mycroft as such. Why does he call him at all? Why would he want Mycroft to be there? Because "there are people" and Sherlock is feeling out of his depth? Because he is afraid of the day he is officially losing John to Mary and prefers to have someone similar to himself at his side, even if it is his annoying brother? The fact that he is calling Mycroft and nearly imploring him to come to the wedding is quite revealing. It is something we have never seen him do before.
And the warning about not getting involved of course foreshadows the end of TSoT and the whole of HLV.
Another good point - when did he get interested in the Magnussen case? When did Lady Smallwood contact him? And had he any suspicions when he read CAM's telegram? The abbreviation is well-known and the telegram came from someone who was not invited because Sherlock knew the guest list only too well.
Posted by lil June 6, 2014 3:27 pm | #122 |
Yes@Susie...totally agree..Sherlock seemed quite vulnerable at that moment..you could get a car..a train...a plane...etc . I was a bit awww for him.So uncharacteristic.
With John blaming Mycroft for TRF...seems likely it was Sherlocks invite too, which makes Mycrofts non attendance surprising.
Instead of reassuring him..Mycroft gives him the warning...and thats when Sherlock seems to reconsider everything...and begin deducing everything..ominously.
I do think Mycroft links all the coincidences together and hints Sherlock about things both here and in HLV..in a I cant get involved or tell you government secrets...but I am telling you..in Holmespeak... way.
Posted by Russell June 6, 2014 4:47 pm | #123 |
Aw, man… thanks again, you guys, for tearing me up with your usual deep observations, and then turning right around with a laugh and more thoughtful 'hmm's! Love the added posts today. Agree always thought it was an interesting choice to have Sherlock reaching out to his brother, and what was said/at what point things were 'started' in their minds. Neat!
Posted by tonnaree June 6, 2014 5:24 pm | #124 |
Random silliness.
At some point in that wedding phone call I really wanted Sherlock to say "Mycroft, you know there's cake........................."
Posted by Tinks June 6, 2014 5:31 pm | #125 |
Russell wrote:
always thought it was an interesting choice to have Sherlock reaching out to his brother, and what was said/at what point things were 'started' in their minds. Neat!
Sherlock and Mycroft's seemingly stronger relationship is all that's keeping me going right now!!
Posted by Russell June 6, 2014 6:24 pm | #126 |
Tinks wrote:
Russell wrote:
always thought it was an interesting choice to have Sherlock reaching out to his brother, and what was said/at what point things were 'started' in their minds. Neat!
Sherlock and Mycroft's seemingly stronger relationship is all that's keeping me going right now!!
Seriously… from seemingly (and humorously) barely tolerating each other/use each other, to just pretending to hate (and working on helping the other with something), to Sherlock calling him at the wedding, playing games/having a talk about feelings, and everything in HLV… always found them a fascinating mix. I just know Mycroft had something up his sleeve with controlling what would happen to his brother at the end there.
Posted by maryagrawatson June 6, 2014 6:35 pm | #127 |
Russell wrote:
Seriously… from seemingly (and humorously) barely tolerating each other/use each other, to just pretending to hate (and working on helping the other with something), to Sherlock calling him at the wedding, playing games/having a talk about feelings, and everything in HLV… always found them a fascinating mix. I just know Mycroft had something up his sleeve with controlling what would happen to his brother at the end there.
We don't know what happened during the two years that Sherlock was gone. We are given the impression that Mycroft was following him closely. They might have grown closer because of that. Morever, Mycroft's role towards Sherlock is very much like a parent in seasons 1 and 2. But Sherlock has grown up in season 3 and so their relationship has involved to something more akin to equals.
Mary
Posted by Russell June 7, 2014 2:36 am | #128 |
maryagrawatson wrote:
Russell wrote:
Seriously… from seemingly (and humorously) barely tolerating each other/use each other, to just pretending to hate (and working on helping the other with something), to Sherlock calling him at the wedding, playing games/having a talk about feelings, and everything in HLV… always found them a fascinating mix. I just know Mycroft had something up his sleeve with controlling what would happen to his brother at the end there.
We don't know what happened during the two years that Sherlock was gone. We are given the impression that Mycroft was following him closely. They might have grown closer because of that. Morever, Mycroft's role towards Sherlock is very much like a parent in seasons 1 and 2. But Sherlock has grown up in season 3 and so their relationship has involved to something more akin to equals.
Mary
Oh, of course, and no doubt he was, just skipped over that period. It felt too casual when Mycroft 'retrieved' him to not have made contact now and then, and the tone of their banters afterwards, too. Really enjoyed that.
Posted by tenderworld June 12, 2014 5:35 pm | #129 |
KeepersPrice wrote:
The funny thing is, I joined this Forum back in 2012, purportedly to discuss all things BBC Sherlock-related, but deep in my secret little Johnlock heart (even when I didn't know there was such a term) I was really here because I was fascinated by the John and Sherlock relationship and how the creators and actors seemed to be teasing us or leading us somewhere with it. I wasn't entirely sure where; but boy, I wanted to see how far they dared push the envelope and I was sort of hoping other people here might be interested in discussing it too. I was pretty shy about my interest in the beginning, a little afraid to confess it, but not anymore! Now I don't even need to pretend - I'm completely Johnlocked bonkers and glad to have found a bunch of like-minded crazies. We definitely have our Johnlock goggles on 24/7 and proud of it. Doesn't bother me if all threads turn into Johnlock. LOL! Ah, my needs are being met and I feel validated! Love you guys!
I'm so sorry to be so late to this party. But the above quote could be me. Yes, I am obsessed as well. I am fascinated by what is happening between these men, and I love (and hate) the tease of it all. I do have a question though, if it hasn't been answered already. Why does Sherlock go braindead when John tells him he wants him to be best man? I know it's cute and charming and all, but is it really probable? After all, we have plenty of indications that Sherlock believes John to be fixated on him. Surely he would have known what everyone else knew -- that he was bound to be John's best man, and that he is John's best friend? How could he miss this???
Posted by KeepersPrice June 13, 2014 2:05 am | #130 |
While Sherlock is the most observant person in the world, he sometimes misses things when they pertain to the heart. One of his biggest misses was Molly's Christmas present. He nailed everything except that the gift was for him. Then he really goofed up his return to John in the restaurant - no comprehension of the gravity of the situation whatsoever. He's been learning to be better socially as the series progresses but he still makes miscalculations when emotion is involved. I love that about the show actually and look forward to those charming, 'Aspergery' Sherlock moments. Yes, I think a lot of the scene with John asking him to be the best man was played for humor; but I also think Sherlock might have been surprised to learn that John considered him a 'best friend' after all he had put him through by being "dead" and the toll it took on both of them during TEH. I also take him at his word when he said at the wedding that he never considered he would ever be anyone's best friend - so he was genuinely stunned when John made that declaration to him.
Posted by tenderworld June 13, 2014 2:20 am | #131 |
Well yes, I suppose that's true. But he deduced Irene Adler was in love with him. Just seems incredible he wouldn't know what he meant to John.
Posted by tobeornot221b June 13, 2014 3:59 am | #132 |
tenderworld wrote:
Well yes, I suppose that's true. But he deduced Irene Adler was in love with him. Just seems incredible he wouldn't know what he meant to John.
I consider this a concession to ACD's: "My dear Watson," said the well-remembered voice, "I owe you a thousand apologies. I had no idea that you would be so affected."
Posted by besleybean June 13, 2014 5:49 am | #133 |
I think Sherlock just misses John and can't understand why anybody would want to get married.
Posted by SusiGo June 13, 2014 6:39 am | #134 |
I think for Sherlock it is easier to deduce people when he is not emotionally involved. Like Irene and also like Molly. John, however, is different and not as easily deduced just because Sherlock loves him. And think of Mary - he spotted from the beginning that something was off with her but he wanted to like her for John's sake and so he closed his eyes to these early suspicions.
As for the "best man" scene - I think that in spite of his self-regard where his intellectual skills are concerned, Sherlock does not feel liked by people. And most of them do not like him. This is the man who felt he had only one friend.
Just look at his stunned reaction when Lestrade hugs him, when Anderson clings to him, when John finally hugs him at the wedding. He is absolutely not accustomed to being shown sympathy or love.
Posted by SolarSystem June 13, 2014 7:38 am | #135 |
I would agree that when emotions and especially his emotions towards John are concerned, deductions don't (always) really work that properly. And when it comes to being best man, I think the whole concept of marriage is totally alien to Sherlock - and the concept of being someone's best man even more so. And the concept of being John's best man... I really can imagine that Sherlock's mind just went into a loop because he had to process so much information all at once. Because none of this has to do with logic.
Posted by SusiGo June 13, 2014 7:41 am | #136 |
Very true.
He does not like conventions and traditions. Marriage is full of them.
He does not like to "mingle". There are people at a marriage.
And maybe he hoped that the marriage would somehow happen without him being involved. Because this means that John takes a final step away from him. I think even non-Johnlockers can agree with that.
Posted by SolarSystem June 13, 2014 8:12 am | #137 |
I think he somehow knew that he couldn't just stay away from the wedding, even though he already seemed to make an attempt at the end of TEH.
But being John's best man means that Sherlock would not only have to be there, he would have to take over a very active part in the whole process. He would not just have to let John go, he sort of gave him to Mary in an active way.
Posted by SusiGo June 13, 2014 8:15 am | #138 |
Yes, I agree. Being best man is being different from fulfilling such a responsible task. And as for the giving away - very sad.
Posted by SolarSystem June 13, 2014 8:56 am | #139 |
Yes. He gave John to "that wife"...
Posted by SusiGo June 13, 2014 9:18 am | #140 |