BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Sherlock and John: The Case of the Missing Conversation

**Posted by Willow** February 7, 2014 12:31 pm

I have only just realised that there is an extraordinary hole in HLV; why did John not ask Sherlock why he had failed to spot Mary?

John's first interaction with Sherlock was a dazzling and bravura display of the science of deduction; Sherlock learned almost everything about John within a few seconds of meeting him. John must have assumed that Sherlock had done the same thing to Mary, since this is what Sherlock does; he analyses people. And since Sherlock didn't warn him she was dodgy John assumed that there was no problem.

It seems to me, therefore, that John must have asked Sherlock that question, and yet we don't see it. We can think we know what Sherlock's answer would have been, but I cannot think of any possible reason why John should not have asked that question. So, there is a missing conversation central to the relationship between Sherlock and John which Moftiss haven't shown us; I do wonder whether that conversation will be a flashback in S4.

It may explain why AGRA went in the fire, and it may explain John's apparent remoteness at the airfield where he refuses even to consider adjusting one of Sherlock's many names for his daughter. Of course, on the other hand it may not

**Posted by Tinks** February 7, 2014 12:43 pm

I think that we have to assume that there were many conversations between Sherl and John in the months he was Hospitalised that led to John being reconciled with Mary.
I really can't account for John's muted goodbye to Sherlock - in my own little fairyland in my head, Mycroft had already assured John that Sherlock's exile wouldn't be for long, but I don't really believe this happened and it does leave a sad shadow.
(In that same fairyland, John will surprise Sherlock by naming his daughter Shirley:D)

The truth is that the writers have left enough gaps to go back and take the story in a different direction, I think.

Whether they'll choose to do so remains to be seen.

**Posted by saturnR** February 7, 2014 12:46 pm

I thought Sherlock did spot Mary. Her connection with CAM is a major reason why he takes on the case. He already had his suspicions about her earlier but because they found out that she was pregnant, he switches from protecting John to protecting his child.

In terms of the deduction itself. It's easier to deduce say being in the armed forces when the soldier has just come home from a war zone than it is to deduce that someone was a spy/assassin/con artist five years prior to your first meeting with them.

As for that conversation, yes I'd love to hear it in Series 4

**Posted by Willow** February 7, 2014 1:07 pm

saturnR wrote:
I thought Sherlock did spot Mary. Her connection with CAM is a major reason why he takes on the case. He already had his suspicions about her earlier but because they found out that she was pregnant, he switches from protecting John to protecting his child.

In terms of the deduction itself. It's easier to deduce say being in the armed forces when the soldier has just come home from a war zone than it is to deduce that someone was a spy/assassin/con artist five years prior to your first meeting with them.

As for that conversation, yes I'd love to hear it in Series 4

I'm not sure which case you are referring to; Sherlock gets his client, Lady Smallwood, at the beginning of HLV, and he assumes that the person about to shoot CAM is Lady Smallwood. Indeed, he addresses her by name.

In view of Sherlock's accurate diagnosis of John's psychosomatic limp, I think that it was pretty impressive

Sherlock deliberately chose not to follow up 'liar' on his reading of Mary because he'd been horrified by John's reaction to him; I do accept that Sherlock had those reasons. What troubles me is that John doesn't ask why the second greatest deductive genius on the face of the planet failed to spot her, which seems to me to be what the John of the first two seasons would certainly have asked.

So yes; definitely need that conversation...

**Posted by Willow** February 7, 2014 1:22 pm

Tinks wrote:
I think that we have to assume that there were many conversations between Sherl and John in the months he was Hospitalised that led to John being reconciled with Mary.
I really can't account for John's muted goodbye to Sherlock - in my own little fairyland in my head, Mycroft had already assured John that Sherlock's exile wouldn't be for long, but I don't really believe this happened and it does leave a sad shadow.
(In that same fairyland, John will surprise Sherlock by naming his daughter Shirley:D)

The truth is that the writers have left enough gaps to go back and take the story in a different direction, I think.

Whether they'll choose to do so remains to be seen.

I do wonder why the writers chose to give us no interaction between J&S after Sherlock almost died in Baker St; the next we see of them together is heading for CAM's helicopter on Christmas Day. I can certainly accept that Sherlock has a romanticised view of motherhood, and neither of them would abandon a pregnant woman in danger, but that is not the same as pretending that the danger doesn't exist. John might, I suppose, delude himself into thinking that if he threw AGRA in the fire this would magically disappear everyone with good reason to want her dead, but Sherlock knows better. CAM got his knowledge from sources, and those sources still exist, even if CAM can be neutralised.

So, maybe the missing conversation will enlighten us; in the meantime I like your fairyland I hope you do not object to my visiting occasionally...

**Posted by Tinks** February 7, 2014 2:09 pm

You're more than welcome to visit whenever you want to, Willow

**Posted by tonnaree** February 7, 2014 2:33 pm

I didn't see John at the airfield as "cold" but rather very repressed. There are a couple of moments when he looks like he's may break which I found powerful if fleeting.
I credit this to Martin's amazing face.

**Posted by silverblaze** February 7, 2014 7:33 pm

tonnaree wrote:
I didn't see John at the airfield as "cold" but rather very repressed. There are a couple of moments when he looks like he's may break which I found powerful if fleeting.
I credit this to Martin's amazing face.

Agreed!

And I think John simply understands that Sherlock's deductive powers aren't infallable, and that he's human too. He made plenty of mistakes in previous episodes, including missing Moriarty.

**Posted by SherlocklivesinOH** February 8, 2014 3:03 am

I felt like John's "Is everyone I've ever met..." question WAS this conversation in a sense. Because it seemed to me he was directing his anger at Sherlock. It felt like he was asking, "Why didn't you warn me?"

**Posted by Willow** February 8, 2014 2:53 pm

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
I felt like John's "Is everyone I've ever met..." question WAS this conversation in a sense. Because it seemed to me he was directing his anger at Sherlock. It felt like he was asking, "Why didn't you warn me?"

It certainly could be read that way, and I shall do my best to try to do so in future

**Posted by lil** February 9, 2014 4:47 am

Maybe the missing convo went something like...
" Because John..if I tell/told you about Mary you wouldn't love me anymore....."

SH recognises the reality/pointlessness of a shoot the messenger type scenario, and thus arranges for the truth to be outed by Mary herself.