BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary's Death

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 19, 2014 8:22 pm

There is SO much debate going on in the HLV forum about Mary - whether she's a good or bad person, whether Sherlock was wrong to trust her etc etc. It's all very fascinating stuff and I'm still totally sat on the fence with regard to whether I like her or not. I've been thinking about Series 4 though...we all know that Mary is probably going to die at some point but her story arc is likely to be very interesting. They could go down several routes here:

1. Mary betrays the trust that Sherlock placed in her and goes down the route of further criminal behaviour which results in her death due to her involvement
2. Mary stays essentially a good person and dies as a hero sacrificing her life to safe either John or Sherlock
3. Mary will die "off screen" in between Series 3 and Series 4, as per the canon when Mary's death takes place in between stories.

So, will she stay good or revert to her past mistakes?
Or just die off screen?

What are your theories and what would you most like to see happen?

**Posted by silverblaze** January 20, 2014 9:31 am

I was speculating with another commenter that Mary should have the story arc from the protagonist in A Valley of Fear, Douglas/McMurdo. I like that idea and hope the writers do that. That'd be the closest to option 2.

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 20, 2014 10:01 am

Please let it not be off-screen. That would be disappoining. I hope for a very dramatic version of 2. (Sounds mean, now that I wrote it down, but I think that would do the character most justice.) I want to cry when it happens.

**Posted by saturnR** January 20, 2014 10:39 am

I'm more worried about her baby than her. John having a kid is so uncannon that they will have to get rid of it. So she will either have a miscarriage or it will die shortly after birth. There is a slight chance that Mary might survive but the baby hws next to no chance. Poor baby.

Last edited by saturnR (January 20, 2014 10:40 am)

**Posted by silverblaze** January 20, 2014 11:33 am

I find option 1 and 3 very unlikely.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 20, 2014 1:09 pm

Swanpride wrote:
Knowing the writers, they first will beat Mary up. Everyone believes that baby died, but no, it survived and is now in the hospital. And then the hospital blows up.

YES! I'd be happy with that.

**Posted by Whisky** January 20, 2014 1:59 pm

Because everybody expects Mary to die, I've thought, what about her and John falling apart over something (I mean, they obviously have had a hard time already). Mary would live, but somewhere else far away, and be out of the story. John could then move back in with Sherlock, or not. And the child... well, I won't like it one bit, but in the above scenario, Mary could just take the little girl with her, and John would go there on weekend trips... and that's it. It's not elegant, but less predictable than killing of the child first thing in the new series.

Really, of all things, I don't get the baby. From the reactions here on the forum, nobody is keen on having Marys child around for the next series, also it wasn't exactly necessary to have a pregnant Mary for this series (I do think John would have cared about her alone just as much). So why have a pregnant Mary at all? It adds nothing to the story, imo, and therefore I just don't understand it.

**Posted by silverblaze** January 20, 2014 2:36 pm

I thought of that scenario too, especially after re-reading Valley. You could basically 'put her on a bus', they might have to persuade Mycroft to help with a little bit of paper work. I would prefer that, I think. It's not as if Doyle's way of handling it was very elegant.

Maybe they're still witholding the reason for the baby. Or it's to seal the bonding, it does give Mary an extra edge IMHO.

**Posted by Regina Alexandra** January 20, 2014 3:19 pm

I hope they do not go with the Mary ran off with the baby in order to protect it plot. It was done as the season 7 cliffhanger on the series Bones. I hope they come up with something original. With only 3 episodes per series, I do not wish to watch Sherlock and John running around to find them. Hasn't John already suffered enough angst? John would never give up looking for his child. I don't want my favorite show to take on soap opera styled tones.

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 20, 2014 5:56 pm

Whisky wrote:
Really, of all things, I don't get the baby. From the reactions here on the forum, nobody is keen on having Marys child around for the next series, also it wasn't exactly necessary to have a pregnant Mary for this series.

Well, at least it shows us that not every part of the show is written to please us.

I am sure that there is a (dramaturgical) reason for that pregancy, and I trust Moftiss enough to believe that they already know how that story arc will continue. I am looking forward to seeing how fanfics will cope with it, though.

**Posted by Regina Alexandra** January 20, 2014 8:35 pm

I think Mary will redeem herself for shooting Sherlock by giving up her own life to save John. Baby will be raised in the country by Sherlock's parents. John will visit when he isn't working or on a case.

**Posted by mrshouse** January 22, 2014 8:55 am

There were some links somewhere else quoting mofftis that mary won't just be killed off in between.
That's okay by me, would be too cheap.
I'm not sure about her being off again at all. HLV ended with john and mary hugging. I don't see the point adding a toddler, too, but any scenario I can imagine is just so real life and thus boring...

**Posted by mrshouse** January 22, 2014 9:37 am

I don't agree swanpride. In germany there are lots of soapy operas shown during afternoons dealing exactly with this, family stuff.
can stay at home for that.

**Posted by Hera** January 22, 2014 11:25 am

I actually think it would be very interesting, although I have to admit that I can't see it working on the long run. But if anyone can do, it's Moffat and Gatiss.

Last edited by Hera (January 22, 2014 11:27 am)

**Posted by SolarSystem** January 22, 2014 12:03 pm

Hera wrote:
I actually think it would be very interesting, although I have to admit that I can't see it working on the long run. But if anyone can do, it's Moffat and Gatiss.

I agree, it might be interesting to see how Moffat and Gatiss could pull this off.
That said, I'm nevertheless very sceptical when it comes to that pregnancy and a baby and I'm not all that keen on seeing too much of that in S4. "Sherlock" just isn't what I would call a show about family stuff, at least not that kind of family stuff.
Sherlock and Mycroft are a completely different matter to me. Sherlock's parents, well, that was a nice, short interlude, but I would be totally fine if we didn't see them again in S4.

**Posted by tonnaree** January 22, 2014 1:21 pm

I loved seeing Sherlock's parents but I do think it's one of those things that should only be used sparingly. Just a bit of them from time to time.

**Posted by mrshouse** January 22, 2014 1:34 pm

this is getting off topic, isn't it?
there are other threads discussing on who or what we would love to see in s4.
i'm torn: not too sure, if marys death will come at all. they built her up too much, amanda sitting in various interviews like a new lead, just doesn't feel likely for me to do so just to kill her off in the first 5 minutes. And listening to the cast interviews i don't have a feeling that amanda is too keen to step back again.
If she dies I also hope it will be in some heroic way. Dread the impact on john though...
Maybe tiny toddler watson will be called mary after his dead mother, so there will still be a mary and a sherlock looking after john for the rest of his life!
I'm not even into parentlock...

**Posted by Willow** January 22, 2014 7:59 pm

Swanpride wrote:
If she dies (or something else happens to her) they will certainly do a propper built up for it. She should be safe until the very end of the first episode.

I'm not sure that they would plan a seismic event like Mary's death for the end of the first episode; it would feel too much like an end of season cliffhanger with another two episodes to go. The episodes last the length of an average feature film so there is plenty of time to despatch her and still move on with the plot; if Moftiss stick with their 'It's not a detective show, it's a show about a detective' concept then they cannot make S4 depend too greatly on the fate of another character.

Obviously the actress playing Mary would like a lot of screen time but it's incredibly difficult to get the balance right; it's even more difficult to see how they would fit a baby into the dynamics of a show about a detective. I suspect that the baby was the idea the writers came up with to explain why John would even contemplate resuming a relationship with the woman who had almost murdered Sherlock, but they now have to extricate themselves from the consequences of that idea...

**Posted by Willow** January 23, 2014 10:27 am

Swanpride wrote:
If they want to make the rest of the season about avanging Mary, they might..

No. I am prepared to wager folding money that Moftiss would jump off Tower Bridge together in preference to writing a season about avenging Mary. This is not 'The Mentalist' and they have no intention of destroying the show with something which looks like a worked over version of another show. Ditto Mary following them around shooting people she thinks might threaten them; Moftiss have completely ruled out that one, again because it would destroy the show.

I recognise that there is wonderful ensemble acting but in the end I come back to what Moffat said a while back; the amazing thing about this Sherlock is that they are young guys who have just met and do not realise that it's the start of a life long partnership with all those adventures ahead of them. A bit like Kirk and Spock but with no Warp Drive

I love that, and I want to watch those adventures, but Mary isn't part of them. I think Moftiss know they have to get rid of her, and it's either death or she disappears into something like a witness protection scheme which Mycroft could arrange, though he might not want to...

**Posted by SolarSystem** January 23, 2014 11:54 am

Willow wrote:
I recognise that there is wonderful ensemble acting but in the end I come back to what Moffat said a while back; the amazing thing about this Sherlock is that they are young guys who have just met and do not realise that it's the start of a life long partnership with all those adventures ahead of them. A bit like Kirk and Spock but with no Warp Drive

I love that, and I want to watch those adventures, but Mary isn't part of them.

Your last sentence says it all. I totally agree.