BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Least favourable fan review of S3 I've read so far...

**Posted by tonnaree** January 22, 2014 1:01 pm

Just wanted to add that I fall solidly on the side of not offended by the fan references in TEH. I was actually tickled pink. It made me happy to be a part of this wild wonderful fandom. It felt like Mofftiss were going "wink wik nudge nudge" We love you daft buggers! Just my feeling.

"Back when I still could do a decent Pirioutte, I was doing it from time to time when I was sure that nobody was present who would laugh at me. It's a really fun thing to do. Though I am really impressed Sherlock managed to do it in dress shoes."

Can we take a moment to appreciate the fact that this was our Benedict. Benedict can pirioutte! Seriously, my jaw dropped.

**Posted by Be** January 22, 2014 1:13 pm

John: ...please tell me you haven't just gone out of your mind.
Sherlock: I'd rather keep you guessing.

**Posted by LoveIsAViciousMotivator** January 22, 2014 2:56 pm

I understand about what the writers' thought about the fall. There are so many solutions to it, which would they choose? Also, they had to make sure the fans were happy with such an explanation, so they decided to leave it open. The only problem I have with it is the fact that too many people were involved and knew Sherlock was alive. I mean his homeless network knew(at least 25 of them), Molly knew, Mycroft knew, and his parents knew. That's alot of people to know that Sherlock is alive. Too many. They put all that emotional trauma to John and to me, that was a bit not good. Yes, I know Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson didn't. But still, to me, it lessen the impact of TRF. Of course, my opinion.

Series three as a whole to me was strange. To me, I thought Sherlock was going to wake up and this whole series was something Sherlock dreamt up to cope with what he dealt with during his two-year isolation. Heck, Sherlock was acting pretty strange and I guess that's why the tone it the way it is and I'm okay with it. But from what I watched of HLV, Sherlock is just the same old guy when in the two episodes, something really looked emotionally wrecked about him. He was hitting himself when he was in his Mind Palace. I still think Sherlock is out of character but I thought his OOC was a purpose to show us that something is wrong. But no. You could say "Well, it has been two years and he was taking down Moriarty's network. Of course, he would change." But there is the problem. Sherlock is the main character and Series three seemed to be in his point of view. Perfect opportunity to give us a glance at what he dealt with in those two years. They showed a piece in the beginning of TEH, but that was it.

I'm sorry if anyone who likes Series three takes offense to my disappointment, but I just felt like Series three was lacking where Series 1 and 2 had. I'm not saying that Series three can't be different. No. Change can be good, but if the ideas aren't executed properly, I question it. That's how I feel. Series three had great ideas, but I felt they weren't executed properly.

I can't wait to see what Series four has in stored for us. I just didn't like Series three as well as the past two. But I don't hate it.

**Posted by sj4iy** January 22, 2014 3:08 pm

LoveIsAViciousMotivator wrote:
I understand about what the writers' thought about the fall. There are so many solutions to it, which would they choose? Also, they had to make sure the fans were happy with such an explanation, so they decided to leave it open. The only problem I have with it is the fact that too many people were involved and knew Sherlock was alive. I mean his homeless network knew(at least 25 of them), Molly knew, Mycroft knew, and his parents knew. That's alot of people to know that Sherlock is alive. Too many. They put all that emotional trauma to John and to me, that was a bit not good. Yes, I know Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson didn't. But still, to me, it lessen the impact of TRF. Of course, my opinion.

Series three as a whole to me was strange. To me, I thought Sherlock was going to wake up and this whole series was something Sherlock dreamt up to cope with what he dealt with during his two-year isolation. Heck, Sherlock was acting pretty strange and I guess that's why the tone it the way it is and I'm okay with it. But from what I watched of HLV, Sherlock is just the same old guy when in the two episodes, something really looked emotionally wrecked about him. He was hitting himself when he was in his Mind Palace. I still think Sherlock is out of character but I thought his OOC was a purpose to show us that something is wrong. But no. You could say "Well, it has been two years and he was taking down Moriarty's network. Of course, he would change." But there is the problem. Sherlock is the main character and Series three seemed to be in his point of view. Perfect opportunity to give us a glance at what he dealt with in those two years. They showed a piece in the beginning of TEH, but that was it.

I'm sorry if anyone who likes Series three takes offense to my disappointment, but I just felt like Series three was lacking where Series 1 and 2 had. I'm not saying that Series three can't be different. No. Change can be good, but if the ideas aren't executed properly, I question it. That's how I feel. Series three had great ideas, but I felt they weren't executed properly.

I can't wait to see what Series four has in stored for us. I just didn't like Series three as well as the past two. But I don't hate it.

Personally, I think the reason Sherlock is OOC is because of his situation with John. He came back fully expecting everything to be back as it was, and it completely shocked him when it wasn't. In episode 2, he's so devoted to making John happy because it's too devestating to think about what life will be like without him there. I liked seeing this vulnerable side to his personality, though. It was nice to see Sherlock on the backfoot for once.

**Posted by Mattlocked** January 22, 2014 3:39 pm

MysteriaSleuthbedder wrote:
weirdos and misfits, morons and madmen

Where did these "words" come from, btw.? I think I've read them about ten times in this thread now.... Must be something special? A quote?
And these "words", are they addressed to me? Because I liked S3? And I feel quite fine about that....

**Posted by silverblaze** January 22, 2014 4:12 pm

Interesting how we all have different perceptions of the show. None of the characters felt OOC to me at all, least of all Sherlock. He always had an emotional side, usually tucked away, but Benedict showed glimpses of that part of him very deliberately. Everything that they showed about that in series 3 was already there in the beginning, only now it was explored more. And the bits of backstory didn't surprise me either. My impression is that Benedict created a very rounded character that acts consistent with its backstory, whatever that is. He feels very realistic to me.

**Posted by SusiGo** January 22, 2014 4:29 pm

Mattlocked: I have no idea where they come from. They are not from the article with which the thread started.

silverblaze: Well said.

**Posted by sj4iy** January 22, 2014 4:40 pm

silverblaze wrote:
Interesting how we all have different perceptions of the show. None of the characters felt OOC to me at all, least of all Sherlock. He always had an emotional side, usually tucked away, but Benedict showed glimpses of that part of him very deliberately. Everything that they showed about that in series 3 was already there in the beginning, only now it was explored more. And the bits of backstory didn't surprise me either. My impression is that Benedict created a very rounded character that acts consistent with its backstory, whatever that is. He feels very realistic to me.

Agreed

**Posted by dartmoordoggers** January 22, 2014 4:48 pm

I was just grateful to find that Sherlock is a detective who is not haunted by his past and has to fight his inner demons in every episode.

**Posted by sj4iy** January 22, 2014 4:54 pm

dartmoordoggers wrote:
I was just grateful to find that Sherlock is a detective who is not haunted by his past and has to fight his inner demons in every episode.

God, this. It's so, soooo tiring to keep seeing the "Broken Goods"-type detective/police show.

**Posted by LoveIsAViciousMotivator** January 22, 2014 6:06 pm

Everyone has their own interpretation of characters. I never disputed that Sherlock has an emotional side. He does. Benedict Cumberbatch does a great job in bring that out of the character. But Sherlock has acted more emotional in Series three than the other two series. He smiles and laughs more. He seems to try and be considerate of people like John and Mary. Look at how he was trying to make their wedding special and everything. It was a shock, but it made me smile to see such an act.

But... Was I the only one who was waiting for the nail to drop on Sherlock? He seemed to be acting so happy yet his Mind Palace scene in TSoT was a bit shocking when he began to hit himself and it felt like he was in pain.

Something was wrong with Sherlock and I began to remember a certain quote from Molly during TRF: "When he was dying, he was always happy and cheerful except when he though no one could see."

I guess this is just me, but really, there were signs that something is going on with Sherlock mentally and emotionally. But that never seemed to be explored or answered. =(

**Posted by Mattlocked** January 22, 2014 6:22 pm

Hm, no, it's not just you. And I think it has been explored AND answered right afterwards, in HLV......

**Posted by SusiGo** January 22, 2014 6:29 pm

Well, for me there is a sort of arch regarding his behaviour in series 3. He starts in quite a distant way ("What life?"), changes into comedy and silliness out of sheer helplessness at the reunion and becomes more and more considerate and friendly throughout TSoT. This culminates in his dancing lesson with Janine and the emotional vow. From then on I see a certain turn towards seriousness (but not his old rude self) when he leaves the wedding alone. In HLV there is hardly any comedy apart from the first Janine scene making it the darkest episode.

We do get some answers from the Mind Palace scene. He clearly suffered from the loss of his dog and afterwards distanced himself from feelings as he remarks in HoB. In TSoT Mycroft warns him that might happen again but Sherlock does not suppress his feelings any longer which makes him vulnerable but also able to appreciate friendship more than before.
And we see that he clearly has not forgotten his traumatic encounters with Moriarty. He is still buried somewhere deep in his psyche, a fact that we also know from the end of HoB.
I think this is quite a lot of information we get here. And I like it that the writers do not spell out everything but use hints or allusions.

**Posted by LoveIsAViciousMotivator** January 22, 2014 6:38 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Hm, no, it's not just you. And I think it has been explored AND answered right afterwards, in HLV......

I need to watch HLV again. The first time I watched it... It took me awhile to watch because I just couldn't get into it. I really need to rewatch Series three as a whole when I get the chance. I just felt disappointed by it like I said earlier.

I think this is quite a lot of information we get here. And I like it that the writers do not spell out everything but use hints or allusions.

No, I like when writers don't spell everything out. I love it, but here, I feel differently. I feel that there were hints of something going on when nothing actually happens. Makes me feel I saw something that wasn't there.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (January 22, 2014 6:40 pm)

**Posted by Willow** January 22, 2014 7:19 pm

Be wrote:
That's what I wanted to say. I haven't got the DVDs yet. And what is realistic in Sherlock's pirouette for example? It's clearly too much. Nobody would do that outside a dance studio.

Actually, I really enjoyed that moment; he was showing off- not exactly a hugely unSherlockian thing to do- and then the writers capped it with him wistfully remarking that he kept hoping it would come in useful on a case, but it never had.

I suppose this is just another example of the way in which different people will have profoundly different responses to the same events...

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 22, 2014 8:10 pm

I honestly haven't really noticed any plotholes in any of the episodes. I don't care if there are any, I'm not interested. I've enjoyed them ALL, on some level. Every single episode. Of course, there's always going to be favourites, some you like more than others, but can we try and inject a little more positivitiy around here, please....this is a BBC Sherlock FAN Forum - emphasis on the word fan there. If you've been so disappointed in Series 3 that you no longer consider yourself a fan, then I'm not sure you should be posting here. I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, just a general observation. I don't want people to start feeling down or negative about overly critical remarks about the series here on this forum.

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 22, 2014 8:12 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Mod's note:
I just found a link to this very thread on tumblr. And I really regret very much if people would take THIS as an example of how things are discussed here. This is a place for tolerant and respectful discussion, not for personal insults and general condemnation. Mysteria, if you are as disappointed with the episodes as you seem to be, fine. But please refrain from attacking people who do not share your views. By now you should have realised that not everyone seems to share your opinions.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

**Posted by LoveIsAViciousMotivator** January 22, 2014 8:29 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
I honestly haven't really noticed any plotholes in any of the episodes. I don't care if there are any, I'm not interested. I've enjoyed them ALL, on some level. Every single episode. Of course, there's always going to be favourites, some you like more than others, but can we try and inject a little more positivitiy around here, please....this is a BBC Sherlock FAN Forum - emphasis on the word fan there. If you've been so disappointed in Series 3 that you no longer consider yourself a fan, then I'm not sure you should be posting here. I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, just a general observation. I don't want people to start feeling down or negative about overly critical remarks about the series here on this forum.

I agree! People who enjoyed the heck out of Series 3 should be able to enjoy and not let anyone who didn't get in their way of enjoying it.

But it also works the another way around. Someone who was disappointed with Series three should be able to express why they were disappointed. After all, no series is perfect, but that doesn't mean those who disagree with certain events or characters hate the series.

Please I don't want to see this forum turn into some other forums I had been on that turn everything into a "if you don't like this, you aren't a fan!" or "if you do like this, you aren't a fan" I hate that. In one of my old forums for a different show, all I did was criticize some writing that I believed was bad. I didn't hate the show nor was I insulting anyone. I was just discussing something I felt wasn't up to par, but other fans started attacking, saying if I didn't like the show, I should stop watching it. But I didn't hate the show! I liked it! But they just kept hound on others for just giving constructive criticism. It turned me off from that fandom and I left.

Not every fan would agree, but let there at least be a mutual understanding on both sides. No personal insults or yelling at other opinions, saying that they are invalid.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (January 22, 2014 9:55 pm)

**Posted by SolarSystem** January 22, 2014 9:54 pm

LoveIsAViciousMotivator wrote:
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
I honestly haven't really noticed any plotholes in any of the episodes. I don't care if there are any, I'm not interested. I've enjoyed them ALL, on some level. Every single episode. Of course, there's always going to be favourites, some you like more than others, but can we try and inject a little more positivitiy around here, please....this is a BBC Sherlock FAN Forum - emphasis on the word fan there. If you've been so disappointed in Series 3 that you no longer consider yourself a fan, then I'm not sure you should be posting here. I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, just a general observation. I don't want people to start feeling down or negative about overly critical remarks about the series here on this forum.
I agree! People who enjoyed the heck out of Series 3 should be able to enjoy and not like anyone who didn't get in their way of enjoying it.

But it also works the another way around. Someone who was disappointed with Series three should be able to express why they were disappointed. After all, no series is perfect, but that doesn't mean those who disagree with certain events or characters hate the series.

Please I don't want to see this forum turn into some other forums I had been on that turn everything into a "if you don't like this, you aren't a fan!" or "if you do like this, you aren't a fan" I hate that. In one of my old forums for a different show, all I did was criticize some writing that I believed was bad. I didn't hate the show nor was I insulting anyone. I was just discussing something I felt wasn't up to par, but other fans started attacking, saying if I didn't like the show, I should stop watching it. But I didn't hate the show! I liked it! But they just kept hound on others for just giving constructive criticism. It turned me off from that fandom and I left.

Not every fan would agree, but let there at least be a mutual understanding on both sides. No personal insults or yelling at other opinions, saying that they are invalid.

I agree with both of you. It should be possible on this forum to share our enthusiasm about S3, but also to mention the things we feel unsure about or which didn't fully convince us. I experience both sides with S3: there are loads of things I absolutely love, but there also are a few things with which I don't feel completely satisfied. And as long as we don't just say "boy, that sucks" but try to explain what bothers us, then I think that should be fine...?

**Posted by sj4iy** January 22, 2014 10:07 pm

The problem isn't so much that people criticize...it's often that they criticize SO MUCH that it becomes pointless to debate it and then all of the threads turn into a constant stream of negativity. You see it a lot in "LotR" and "Doctor Who" fandom...people just hate that something doesn't turn out like they think it will and grow resentful. It's not so much that it's bad...it's just different from what they thought it would be. I would say that has happened here...Series 3 is different from what came before. They focused on the relationships instead of the mystery- it was a gamble, and not everyone was going to like it. But the writers felt it was necessary to tell their story, and I think that's what people often forget. That it's not my story, your story or anyone else's story other than the people writing the show. They know where it's going, and we don't. They have a very limited format to work with, so one underwhelming episode seems like a HUGE waste in many people's opinions. If this series had 24 episodes per season, no one would think twice about seeing Sherlock and John drunk detecting after a stag night...but given Sherlock's limited time frame, it seems like a waste to those who want to see more 'mystery'. It doesn't mean it's a waste...it just means that someone wanted to see something else and they didn't get it.

I can see both sides of the argument, and I respect everyone's opinion on it. However, for me, personally, I enjoyed this series very much. I loved the change in format, I loved what they did with Mary, and I really enjoyed the villain. These writers have been known to never rest on their laurels, and this was no exception. I think, given time and distance, people will appreciate what they did in this series more than they do when it's so fresh in their mind.