BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / The Mor...... names

**Posted by zydeholic** January 19, 2014 4:22 am

So, seems to be a trend with the names of baddy characters (Mary being a nice baddy).

MOR - iarity
MOR - an
MOR - stan

This would be about the original books though, and not the series.

Anybody know?

**Posted by saturnR** January 19, 2014 4:32 am

Sounds like the L mortif in superman (lex luthor, lana lane, etc...)

No idea why Mor- names are significant in Sherlock Holmes or maybe they really are just a coincidence since Doyle wrote the stories across several decades, kind of loathed his creation & never really bothered to keep up with who's called whom.

Same thing happened when "Evans" was used in Harry Potter pertaining to the name of a muggle & everyone instantly connected it with Lily Evans. JK Rowling came out saying that she wasn't keeping track of him coz he wasn't a major charactor & that Evans being a common surname, she didn't realise it would cause such a connection from the fans.

Last edited by saturnR (January 19, 2014 4:38 am)

**Posted by zydeholic** January 19, 2014 5:13 am

"Mor" is often an inference to "Morte" in made up names, it seems, which is a further inference to bad people. Voldemort, Mordrid, Morgana,

**Posted by silverblaze** January 19, 2014 11:18 am

There are also a lot of names that start with M.

**Posted by SherlocklivesinOH** January 20, 2014 9:59 pm

There is a fascinating essay by Michael Walsh, included in the Sherlock Holmes in America anthology, about how everyone in canon with "Mor" in their name (representing a particularly ethnicity, Irish, I think), in canon, is evil: Moriarty and Moran, of course, but he also includes....

MORSTAN: and he makes the following statements:

Mary Morstan is"the good side of Colonel Moran"

When Watson marries Mary, Holmes' world is shattered.

Mary is Holmes' most deadly enemy, against whom he is most powerless

Mary's death brings Holmes back to life. He's not saying Mary is meant to be an evil or unsympathetic character, just that she is Holmes' enemy. (Again, this is from canon - Watson has been married in canon for about two years before Holmes disappears, and Mary passes away during the Hiatus.)

Walsh never uses a word like "homoerotic," but what can he be saying, besides, that the worst thing an enemy can do to Sherlock Holmes is to deprive him of Watson?

The use of the word "shattered" echos the Decoding the Subtext blog on Holmes' reaction when Mary agrees to marry Watson: his heart is broken. It's like Walsh knows Holmes is in love with Watson - without knowing he knows that!

**Posted by Sherlock Holmes** January 20, 2014 10:04 pm

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
There is a fascinating essay by Michael Walsh, included in the Sherlock Holmes in America anthology, about how everyone in canon with "Mor" in their name (representing a particularly ethnicity, Irish, I think), in canon, is evil: Moriarty and Moran, of course, but he also includes....

MORSTAN: and he makes the following statements:

Mary Morstan is"the good side of Colonel Moran"

When Watson marries Mary, Holmes' world is shattered.

Mary is Holmes' most deadly enemy, against whom he is most powerless

Mary's death brings Holmes back to life. He's not saying Mary is meant to be an evil or unsympathetic character, just that she is Holmes' enemy. (Again, this is from canon - Watson has been married in canon for about two years before Holmes disappears, and Mary passes away during the Hiatus.)

Walsh never uses a word like "homoerotic," but what can he be saying, besides, that the worst thing an enemy can do to Sherlock Holmes is to deprive him of Watson?

The use of the word "shattered" echos the Decoding the Subtext blog on Holmes' reaction when Mary agrees to marry Watson: his heart is broken. It's like Walsh knows Holmes is in love with Watson - without knowing he knows that!

That's pretty damn interesting considering what we learned in HLV. I wonder if Moffat and Gatiss read that essay!

**Posted by SusiGo** January 20, 2014 10:05 pm

This is really fascinating. Thanks for pointing this out. So one could say that Moffat only carries this view to extremes by making Mary a "villain" who very nearly kills Sherlock?

**Posted by Harriet** January 20, 2014 10:23 pm

Latin: MORS = Death

**Posted by zydeholic** January 20, 2014 10:52 pm

I think the homoerotic slant has more to do with the leanings of the writers than anything else.

Pretty sure in Victorian times, fraternal love was held to a higher calling that it is today, particularly with female companionship much more tightly nailed down than by today's standards. How that played out in day to day life, I can't say, but it's pretty easy to see that a gay writer would latch onto this and put their own slant on it, even if it's for comedic affect.

I've not read the original Holmes canon, so I don't know how it's played out in print. If Holmes is as awkward and isolated in the original stories as he's made out to be in this rehashing, it's not too hard to see that he might be quite upset at losing his anchor to society, without there being any homoerotic intent.

The homosexual jokes in the new series worked precisely once. Now it is way overdone.

**Posted by Harriet** January 20, 2014 10:55 pm

Well, in Victorian times, they just had to call it fraternal love

**Posted by zydeholic** January 20, 2014 11:03 pm

Did they have to wear those HATS though?

**Posted by zydeholic** January 20, 2014 11:06 pm

Now, the cigars, there you have homoerotic intent.

**Posted by SherlocklivesinOH** February 14, 2014 3:27 am

Not that there's anything funny about Mary shooting Sherlock, but if you think about it, it's almost a pun on what Johnlockers would say, or what the Walsh essay said:

Mrs. Watson shatters Sherlock Holmes' heart. / almost kills Holmes (insert other metaphor for emotional pain.)

(I once heard one of my English professors explain dreams as puns - he gave the example of a dream where somebody you over gossiping about you literally bites you in the back. Or like when you feel overwhelmed by work or something, and you dream that you're being pulled under water or a pile of something.)

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** February 14, 2014 7:30 am

Harriet wrote:
Latin: MORS = Death

Exactly my thought!

**Posted by lil** January 24, 2015 5:00 pm

Walshes essay is fascinating....how he connects Mary with Moran...calling her 'the good side of Col. Moran ' and saying Holmes is powerless against her...and the Irish thing.....!.
Don't believe in coincidence and the American chronicles book was quite popular with SH fans.

Last edited by lil (January 24, 2015 5:01 pm)

**Posted by lil** January 24, 2015 5:25 pm

OT a little...but also I think relevant and fascinating if you don't know...

Moriarty is based on a real life criminal....Andrew Worth the napoleon of crime ...and many of Doyles stories are based on his actual deeds....tunnelling into banks....the famous painting thing..faking his death...and too may other things to mention..

I meant to make a thread on it sometime...because of his associations with Marm Mandelbaum and Kitty Flynn....and his later deal with the Pinkerton agency....really is interesting history and very familiar especially the legendary meeting between the master criminal and William Pinkerton who had hunted him for so long.

If interested a good source here....

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/worth/1.html

Last edited by lil (January 24, 2015 5:26 pm)