Davina wrote:

They are the equivalent of The Baker Street Irregulars from the original, just updated. The trouble is, could they be trusted, absolutely, to keep quiet about it?

Yes the intent is that they are the equivalent, however I don't think it is translating as well as it should to modern times.

Look at your own post now, "could they be trusted?". Would that have been your first thoughts of the Baker Street Irregulars when you first read Sherlock Holmes? I doubt it.
The BSI were introduced during stories when Holmes needed things done or people watched etc. You don't sit there thinking " yes but is that kid lying? Maybe that kid is just after money? " etc. They were (mostly) kids who would do whatever Holmes asked; there was an implicit trust between them.

Now however, everyone is cynical. People first think 'What's their angle?' It is hard for people to believe these homeless people are inherently 'good' but on hard times. And yet some of the most honest people in the world ARE homeless people. Some choose to be homeless, they don't believe in  'material wealth' etc.
Sherlock would no doubt 'select' who he deals with & chooses the most honest & trustworthy.

kazza474 wrote:

Now however, everyone is cynical. People first think 'What's their angle?' It is hard for people to believe these homeless people are inherently 'good' but on hard times. And yet some of the most honest people in the world ARE homeless people. Some choose to be homeless, they don't believe in  'material wealth' etc.

Well said. Perhaps the ones not to be trusted are those that get in debt up to their ears chasing more and more, never finding satisfaction or contentment. Never trust a discontented person; he'll throw you under the bus to advance himself. My work often brings me into contact with the "less fortunate" of society, and I'm convinced the truly "less fortunate" are not those who lack material possessions, but rather are those who don't have an accurate understanding of themselves and what's really important in life.

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

I had considered the plausibility of that scenario but considered it to be a pretty weak sell. One, being blackmailed does not make one competent enough to mastermind a crime of that magnitude because Two, we are talking maximum security with checks and balances and  automated and procedure protocol that overrides any single human component. Unless Moriarty blackmailed the whole staff at each institution.

1. They don't have to mastermind anything; just flick a switch, turn a blind eye. Moriarty plans it all. They are simply pawns; the dumber the better actually.
2. It wouldn't take the whole staff, see above. As for all the electronic safeguards, they'd be easily defused by computer by the right person. No system is infallible and more importantly in this case he didn't knock out the whole network of security in each location; just certain parts. With his criminal organisation, this would not be a one pronged attack.

The small amount of damage he did to the security would certainly be achievable. You see when terrorists attack, they want to take out the whole system, the whole thing & that is very hard to do. But if all you are doing is playing a game, taking out little bits here & there would be far more achievable.

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

Tantalus wrote:

And another thing: Is anyone else bothered by the fact that so many people in medical "garb" appear so quickly on the scene? Don't we have to assume that these people are all "in" on the real story? Unless they are all members of the homeless network, wouldn't it be unrealistic to expect so many people to keep their mouths shut about what really happened?

Yes that occurred to me too. If Sherlock jumped into a net being held by a bunch of people scramblng out of the truck those same people could be the fake medical staff. But the more people who were in on this plot the less plausible it would be to keep this covered up or make work. Plus Sherlock is not a guy to round up a bunch of conspirators he would have to trust and whose abilities he would need to rely on. That is totally out of his character. Admitting to Molly he needed her help nearly killed him. And i doubt her role was to plan this operation at the hospital. Would he trust her for that?

The multi conspirator issue with Moriarty's three perfect crimes gives me heartburn as well. To have Moriarty saying:" there is no computer code, DOOFUS, I just magically found a bunch of perfect operatives who were able to pull off three unprecedented capers at the same time without fail." Sure Jim that seems a whole lot more plausible, not. Solutions relying on brilliant unknown unnamed conspirators trouble me as really not playing fair with audience. It is more likely in Sherlock's case that someone (Mycroft, Sherlock himself) somehow tipped off the legitimate medical staff that he was jumping right before he jumped. So they arrived onto the scene quickly.

But if they were actually medical staff, wouldn't they have known that there was indeed a pulse? (if in fact it was Sherlock's body). Plus, real medics would never turn over someone, who's just fallen from a great height, without a backboard(could've injured their spine, etc). And whatever happened to CPR?

biscuitbear wrote:

Just came across this photo on tumblr, very interesting!

http://cumberbatchcoffeeklatch.tumblr.com/image/41662803524

 
Hmmm....when I looked at that picture I found my attention going to the guy looking up and pointing.  I was wondering if he saw something - or was he just indicating where the man had fallen from.  In canon, Holmes never did end up going over the Reichenbach Falls - he got onto a ledge - so he never hit the bottom.  Watson, in canon, thought for sure he had seen two bodies going over. Could that be the case for us?  Did we just "think" we saw his body falling? I have no idea......

It looks like what this guy is holding to his chest is a pocket of blood.

Your question is answered above!

My thoughts:

1.  The "paramedics" who called John at St. Barts, they were not Moriarty's team but Sherlock's medics, likely the same medics at the bottom of the fall.

2.  The cab back from Baker to St. Barts.  That's no random cabbie.  That's specifically for John, and the cabbie knows exactly where to park. 

3.  Moriarty looks down at the 2 bus visual.  The 2 buses are intentionally parked to prevent any intervening car parkers.  He even mentions the crowd/audience building.  He doesn't know that they're actually Sherlock's people.  (Remember John as he departs to check on Mrs. Hudson? "Friends protect you!") 

4.  We never see the 2 bus visual again after Sherlock asks for his "privacy."  This is where and when the set-up for the fall begins.  Moriarty walks away, Sherlock follows to further stall while staging begins, and to stall to allow for John's return.  Between now and the fall, the 2 buses make way for the garbage bag truck.

5.  Moriarty kills himself.  Sherlock has beaten Moriarty.  Sherlock feigned his ordinary-ness, like pretending that a code existed -- which frustrated Moriarty (since no code exists, IMO), presumably because Sherlock was "revealed" to be ordinary.  Moriarty has no equal, no distraction.  Briefly prior to this, Sherlock grabbed Moriarty and threatened to throw him off the roof -- but Moriarty didn't flinch.  This was Sherlock's test, the same sort of test of Irene's pulse and dilated pupils.  It was at this point that Sherlock realized that Moriarty was not afraid to die, meaning Sherlock could push the right buttons to convince him to kill himself (Sherlock has been very un-Sherlock the whole time on the roof, displaying little mental prowess, proving himself ordinary, i.e. giving Moriarty every reason that he has no reason to live).  Sherlock knows Moriarty won't give up the fail-safe, but he has convinced Moriarty that so long as Moriarty is alive, Sherlock will wait it out -- but Sherlock knows that Moriarty's insane enough to kill his own fail-safe.

6. Sherlock goes back to the ledge, briefly looks down to make sure everything is proper.  My guess is that he fell into the truck of bags, or some mattress was pulled out from it, or the like, and quickly discarded after Sherlock falls.

7.  John arrives.  Sherlock instructs him specifically where to go, stand, observe, etc. and of course, to keep his eyes up.  Staging is almost finished.

8. The truck obscures John's and the sniper's vantage points.  Sherlock falls into *something*, but quickly rolls onto the ground.  The crowd is in on it, as is the truck.  (What truck drives away after seeing someone fall to his death?)  Biker intentionally runs over John, giving a few extra crucial seconds to prep.

9. The crowd, half of them paramedics, supply the necessaries to stage the death (blood, stretcher, etc.).  Sherlock's rubber ball is under his right armpit, preventing a readable heartbeat from his right wrist.  Fake doctor ensures the right wrist is the one John checks (btw, fake doctor has a stethoscope on him but dresses like that?  And if he was already clocked in at work, where's his lab jacket?). 

10.  Medics ship him in.  Molly prepares replacement body, Sherlock is pronounced "dead."



The above are just my half informed opinions, likely unoriginal and/or off, but whatever, my head hurts =)

BlinkULDHC wrote:

5.  Moriarty kills himself.  Sherlock has beaten Moriarty.  Sherlock feigned his ordinary-ness, like pretending that a code existed -- which frustrated Moriarty (since no code exists, IMO), presumably because Sherlock was "revealed" to be ordinary.  Moriarty has no equal, no distraction.  Briefly prior to this, Sherlock grabbed Moriarty and threatened to throw him off the roof -- but Moriarty didn't flinch.  This was Sherlock's test, the same sort of test of Irene's pulse and dilated pupils.  It was at this point that Sherlock realized that Moriarty was not afraid to die, meaning Sherlock could push the right buttons to convince him to kill himself (Sherlock has been very un-Sherlock the whole time on the roof, displaying little mental prowess, proving himself ordinary, i.e. giving Moriarty every reason that he has no reason to live).

However, just prior to killing himself, Moriarty is actually convinced that Sherlock is his equal.  It's right after the 'angels' exchange.  That's why he shakes his hand.  And to make sure that Sherlock doesn't somehow deduce the code to stop the snipers, he kills himself.  Moriarty wins.

Editing to add:  I saw an interesting theory at http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/reichenbach-a-to-z , but of course, I can't find the right one now.  It might be one of the deleted blogs, but I just saw it a couple of weeks ago.

Anyway, this person saw what looked like a red sniper dot on Sherlock's forehead appear just after the 'angels' exchange.  Remember it's bright daylight, not a darkened pool, so it's not going to be all that easy to see.  I can see it on the YouTube scene fragment here: http://youtu.be/8DA834XBdYQ , so it definitely doesn't require any special viewing techniques.  (Then again, it could be a low-quality artifact...)  It's at :28.

Moriarty seems to turn his head to look at Sherlock very closely, and then says, 'No, you're not.'  It doesn't make sense that Sherlock's words alone would change his mind.  Rather, Sherlock is threatening to do something only Moriarty would be insane enough to do.  The sniper is his own.  He's threatening to kill himself and make it look like murder if Moriarty doesn't call off his snipers.

Now, I don't think Sherlock intends to go through with it.  If he does, John and the others die anyway.  And whether you believe Sherlock actually cares about his friends or not, that's the difference between him and Moriarty.  He's not insane.  He won't kill himself for the sole purpose of winning the game.  As noted above, Sherlock rightly deduces that Moriarty would kill himself to win the game.  I'm guessing he doesn't know about the gun (remember that Moriarty doesn't like to get his hands dirty), so he doesn't anticipate that Moriarty could take that route.  As Sherlock sees it, the stand-off ends in one of two ways - Moriarty calls his bluff, and he has to jump (a scenario for which he has prepared), or Moriarty believes him and calls off the snipers.

If the bluff fails, Moriarty has to be dead when he jumps.  Perhaps Sherlock's sniper is expected to do it?  Or Sherlock himself.  However, that's where Molly and/or Mycroft would come in - the body and all evidence will be gone.

I'm not sure why Moriarty wouldn't call his bluff - after all, he wants Sherlock dead.  It doesn't fit in with his plans for Sherlock's fall and all the effort he's gone to in order to destroy him, but you know, he's 'changeable'.  The person who came up with this theory thought Sherlock would have enough 'breadcrumbs' to implicate Moriarty in the murder.  Given that he's slithered out of countless attempts to bring him to justice, Moriarty wouldn't be terribly concerned about this.  So I think there are some holes here, but I do like the sniper as an explanation of Moriarty's change from 'You're ordinary' to 'Thank you'.

Last edited by erunyauve (February 4, 2013 11:15 am)

Be wrote:

There might be another device Sherlock used on the roof: an earphone on his left ear. He puts it on when he spins around/freaks out.
When we see Sherlock the first time really close on his right side we can see beehind his left ear. Look at it. There is something small ...
We get to see many earphones/headsets.
I think Sherlock picks the earphone out of the police car right before the daring escape. The earphone is in the car right next to the microphone. Slow down and watch closely. He grabs the mic and the earphone/headset.
When he talks to John he might simultaniously  talk to the crew on the ground through the second phone/ ear phone on his left ear. He has to coordinate the preparations, the "note" and the fall itself.( We are going to need to coordinate!)
Are the writers trolling us: Did nobody notice the earring?

Oh, good eye!  I think you might have found something there.  That might explain the 'hello' some people have heard?