BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / First Reactions...

**Posted by anjaH_alias** January 13, 2014 11:00 pm

Whisky wrote:
I like how everyone is using "gobsmacked", because YES. that. Never held my breath for such a long time.

Watching only for the third time now. Still too much to process. I'm really feeling terribly stupid, but why couldn't Mary just shoot CAM, even with Sherlock as witness?

Because John was there and he should not know something about her past. And if she had shot both John had been suspect nr. 1.

**Posted by Ozma** January 13, 2014 11:19 pm

anjaH_alias wrote:
Whisky wrote:
I like how everyone is using "gobsmacked", because YES. that. Never held my breath for such a long time.

Watching only for the third time now. Still too much to process. I'm really feeling terribly stupid, but why couldn't Mary just shoot CAM, even with Sherlock as witness?
Because John was there and he should not know something about her past. And if she had shot both John had been suspect nr. 1.

A few questions:

1 - She hadn't known Sherlock was there. How could she be sure that John was there with him as well? Does she just usually assume they are joined at the hip? Or has she seen them?

2- She could have shot Magnussen (quickly, instead of just conveniently standing over him waiting for witnesses to arrive) and then begged Sherlock to just wait and not say anything and told him she would have explained (Sherlock is pretty curious and as he is so intelligent surely he would have complied)

3- WHY WAS SHE TAKING SO LONG WITH MAGNUSSEN?! was she also trying to extract the information from him? Really, all it would have taken would have been 1 quick shot - like she has done so many times in her past?!?

**Posted by Whisky** January 13, 2014 11:20 pm

anjaH_alias wrote:
Whisky wrote:
I like how everyone is using "gobsmacked", because YES. that. Never held my breath for such a long time.

Watching only for the third time now. Still too much to process. I'm really feeling terribly stupid, but why couldn't Mary just shoot CAM, even with Sherlock as witness?
Because John was there and he should not know something about her past. And if she had shot both John had been suspect nr. 1.

But wasn't John next door? He couldn't have known who shot.
I don't think John would ever be suspect of murdering Sherlock. That's just... wrong. And they would need proof.

Ozma wrote:
2- She could have shot Magnussen (quickly, instead of just conveniently standing over him waiting for witnesses to arrive) and then begged Sherlock to just wait and not say anything and told him she would have explained (Sherlock is pretty curious and as he is so intelligent surely he would have complied)

yes. would have made more sense... that was what I would have expected, too.

Think I just haven't watched it often enough. Working on that now

Last edited by Whisky (January 13, 2014 11:24 pm)

**Posted by Sticks** January 13, 2014 11:37 pm

As the end credits roll the BBC announcer says that

"Now the thing is with Sherlock is you have to watch right to the very end of the credits or you'll miss something"

I watched and didn't see anything odd or unusual. maybe it was to do with the actor who played young Sherlock? Did I miss something?

**Posted by Ozma** January 13, 2014 11:40 pm

errr, no, the thing was the bit with Moriarty at the end........

**Posted by Sticks** January 13, 2014 11:43 pm

But M was shown before the start of the credits. The final scene was Sherlock's plane returning to land and then came the credits.

**Posted by Ozma** January 13, 2014 11:44 pm

oh yes, there was another shot of Moriarty repeating 'Miss me' - didn't you see it?

**Posted by Sticks** January 13, 2014 11:55 pm

There is another "miss me?" which extended over into the promo for another program. The BBC cross-fade was rather messy. I guess that was it. Thanks for your response.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** January 14, 2014 1:39 am

My reaction? What the F-----!!!! :-D

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** January 14, 2014 1:43 am

I think we also got a look at a true sociopath and Sherlock. There's a difference, and that scene illustrated it.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (January 14, 2014 1:43 am)

**Posted by Montag** January 14, 2014 3:48 am

On rewatching I felt that Mycroft was going to order CAM shot. Sherlock gets CAM to confirm loudly that the files were in his head. Mycroft kept telling j and s to step away. Was sherlock not only saving john but saving his brother as well?

Also am convinced that Moriarty, Sherlock and. Mycroft are in some way related, by the mother. Sort of explains why he and Sherlock were so similar in how they think. Moriarty kept saying you are me. Could be Sherlocks mum left moriarty's dad so a sibling rivalry type relationship?

**Posted by sj4iy** January 14, 2014 4:02 am

Montag wrote:
On rewatching I felt that Mycroft was going to order CAM shot. Sherlock gets CAM to confirm loudly that the files were in his head. Mycroft kept telling j and s to step away. Was sherlock not only saving john but saving his brother as well?

Uh, no. Mycroft would have never shot CAM, he was there to recover his stolen laptop- and he knew who had stolen it. Mycroft ordered Sherlock and John to step away from CAM because he was afraid of what Sherlock might do, and Sherlock wanted CAM to confirm for him definitively that the vaults were all in his head before making up his mind to shoot him. But no, Sherlock was not saving his brother...he was saving his best friend's wife.

Also am convinced that Moriarty, Sherlock and. Mycroft are in some way related, by the mother. Sort of explains why he and Sherlock were so similar in how they think. Moriarty kept saying you are me. Could be Sherlocks mum left moriarty's dad so a sibling rivalry type relationship?

What, the Irish brother they never talk about? ;)

Last edited by sj4iy (January 14, 2014 4:04 am)

**Posted by zeratul** January 14, 2014 6:44 am

Btw just thinking, if Lady Elisabeth Smallwood wouldn't have contacted Sherlock (and non of the others in that time). What would have happened?
Mary would have shot CAM. Neither Sherlock or John would have known that.
Mary wouldn't have shot Sherlock, Sherlock wouldn't have shot CAM. Everything would be fine...

**Posted by besleybean** January 14, 2014 6:46 am

But only Sherlock could solve it.

**Posted by Mirthxx** January 14, 2014 7:24 am

zeratul wrote:
Btw just thinking, if Lady Elisabeth Smallwood wouldn't have contacted Sherlock (and non of the others in that time). What would have happened?
Mary would have shot CAM. Neither Sherlock or John would have known that.
Mary wouldn't have shot Sherlock, Sherlock wouldn't have shot CAM. Everything would be fine...

She's had plenty of time to do that, why choose that night? I think both Mary and Sherlock recieved the planted intel, and I think CAM put it there. Janine was knocked out between letting Sherlock in and Sherlock arriving in the lift. So not only did Mary choose the same night, but the same time. A night that Sherlock had been told CAM would be out to dinner, and yet Mary had been told he would be in and vulnreable.

I think CAM needed to push the meeting. Afterall, he can't blackmail Sherlock about Mary, if Sherlock doesn't actually know about Mary can he?? He needs the reveal so he can make his move. He is a genius strategist, and I think he had everything worked out. Probably had another security team 'waiting in the wings' in case Sherlock failed to show, he was just stalling for time when Sherlock arrived.

The one thing I don't get is why John didn't tell his wife where he was going?? Or maybe THAT was the catalyst for Mary to visit CAM, but then why ask Sherlock if John was with him?? Seems weird that John didn't say "Oh, met this right prick today at Sherlocks called CAM, pee'd in the fire!! Anyway, I'm off out tonight to meet Sherlock at this building" (the one that Mary know's CAM is at).

Unless she didn't think Sherlock could use the lift?? After all she supposedly didn't know about Janine at that point but again, can believe John's first words when he walked in thier flat were not "Sherlocks got a girlfriend!! An actual Girlfriend. She breathes, she walks, she smiles!!" LOL

Mxx

Last edited by Mirthxx (January 14, 2014 7:28 am)

**Posted by zeratul** January 14, 2014 7:50 am

Hmm interesting point.
Well for sure Mary asked for John, because if he wouldn't have been there, she would have shot Sherlock and CAM.

**Posted by saturnR** January 16, 2014 12:20 pm

This is the weirdest episode I've ever seen. I didn't get the plot until I read the plot summary of "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" on Wikipedia. The difference being that the original CAM adventure narrative actually makes sense. This episode doesn't...

**Posted by besleybean** January 16, 2014 4:51 pm

But did you like it?!

**Posted by Willow** January 16, 2014 5:52 pm

saturnR wrote:
This is the weirdest episode I've ever seen. I didn't get the plot until I read the plot summary of "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" on Wikipedia. The difference being that the original CAM adventure narrative actually makes sense. This episode doesn't...

If you read 'His Last Bow' then quite a bit of 'His Last Vow' slots into place; they are both about information and it's uses and abuses, as well as the love of one's country. One of the earliest questions asked in the hearing chaired by Lady Smallwood is about the exceedingly large numbers of meetings between a foreign businessman and the British Prime Minister; I suspect that the original Holmes' response to that would be identical to our Sherlock's.

The MP asking the question is subsequently shown on the news as having been arrested on charges of corruption; the implication is that CAM punishes anyone whoever dares to challenge him in any way.

The nice thing about complicated plots is that you can spend happy hours working through them

Last edited by Willow (January 16, 2014 6:03 pm)

**Posted by silverblaze** January 16, 2014 8:37 pm

There is some characterisation of Von Bork in Magnussen, especially in the way he talks about the English.