BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Sherlock's clueless return

**Posted by besleybean** October 13, 2016 11:52 am

I know and witnessed ' the death' etc...but hell, he had seen one fake death, yes I know he didn't want to fool himself...
But to repeatedly hit Sherlock?
I'd have told him to get lost and walked away.

**Posted by tonnaree** October 13, 2016 12:01 pm

besleybean wrote:
I know and witnessed ' the death' etc...but hell, he had seen one fake death, yes I know he didn't want to fool himself...
But to repeatedly hit Sherlock?
I'd have told him to get lost and walked away.

Yea, and Molly slapped him three times for getting high. Something I see as a much lesser transgression.

**Posted by besleybean** October 13, 2016 12:03 pm

I rarely agree with violence and I know people think it makes good TV.

**Posted by kgreen20** October 13, 2016 5:31 pm

besleybean wrote:
John more or less implies he's killed people.
Though whether or not that was in combat or by bad doctoring, I don't know.
I'm sure it wasn't the latter!

Not likely to have been by bad doctoring, so he probably killed Afghani insurgents to save lives. If, as I surmise, he was a trainee trauma surgeon (who, according to Wellingtongoose, would have been sent into battles to retrieve wounded soldiers, and would have had to be prepared to kill in order to save his patients' lives and his own), then he used his gun on insurgents who were shooting at them while he was trying to prepare injured soldiers for retrieval to a base hospital. (With that said, a number of the other fans surmise otherwise, I know. Unless the series decides to reveal more of John's past, we will never know for sure.)

**Posted by besleybean** October 13, 2016 6:22 pm

It's not an important detail for me.

**Posted by cmb711** October 13, 2016 11:13 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
As for clueless Sherlock (to come back to the topic) it could be a matter of low self-esteem. He voiced at the wedding that he never thought to be anybody's close friend. I doubt he realized he was important enough to leave him devastated. :-(

Exactly.

**Posted by cmb711** October 14, 2016 11:43 am

Well, duh. I just remembered. Of course John has killed people. He shot the cabbie to save Sherlock, and Sherlock commented that you would need an excellent marksman to make that shot from that distance. "So you're looking for someone with a military background and nerves of steel. . . . . You know what? Never mind. Forget everything I just said. I'm in shock. I've got a blanket. See?"

**Posted by tonnaree** October 14, 2016 12:11 pm

John has also flat out said, "I've killed people." In ASiB.

**Posted by besleybean** October 14, 2016 12:11 pm

That is what I was referring to.

**Posted by TakeMyHand** October 14, 2016 2:45 pm

besleybean wrote:
Oh I think he knew exactly what he was doing to John, I don't believe it was all fake tears on the roof.
But he saw no alternative...
As for his return: he maybe really did feel he could just waltz back into John's life.
I mean really: why didn't John react like Greg?

I also agree that I don't think the tears were all fake. I can't accept that. I also, however, strongly believe that Sherlock's ignorance toward's John's reaction is caused by his low self-esteem (for lack of better word.) Sherlock doesn't comprehend how much he means to John, because he never expected to mean anything to anyone.

So then why the tears? My theory is Sherlock wasn't crying (as much) for John as he was for himself. Sherlock knew he was going to hurt John, yes. But he also knew he was going to have to leave him for an indefinite amount of time. Could those tears be tears of loss? I think it's a possibility.

**Posted by Vhanja** October 14, 2016 8:41 pm

According to Moffat, the tears were fake - sadly. (And I see no reason for him to lie about it seeing as he didn't say it until after the episode aired, so it wasn't a spoiler).

**Posted by besleybean** October 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Oh I know he said that...I like to think he meant just in terms of him not really being driven to suicide...
Then they say all sorts I don't agree with, but I just have to accept it.

Last edited by besleybean (October 14, 2016 8:50 pm)

**Posted by Schmiezi** October 14, 2016 8:46 pm

See, I think everybody has the right to interpret art the way they feel is right, no matter what the creator says. And "Sherlock", and TV in general, is also art to me.

I like to believe that Sherlock's tears were real but that he was crying over his own loss, not because of what he was doing to John.

From what we see on screen, that belief is as valid as thinking the tears were faked, and that is what matters to me.

Last edited by Schmiezi (October 14, 2016 8:47 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** October 14, 2016 8:50 pm

I think it's a bit of both. Yes, he was "faking" in the sense that he wasn't actually suicidal, but needed to appear as if he was. But I think he was also emotional. It was a hugely emotional moment. And I agree, that the emotion would be more about his own loss than John's.

**Posted by cmb711** October 23, 2016 3:53 am

In ASIP, when Sherlock figures out who the shooter was, he asks John, "Are you OK? . . . You did just kill a man." John seems slightly taken aback, and says, "Yes, I did, didn't I? But he wasn't a very nice man." I think John is "acclimatized to violence," and Sherlock, despite all his contact with already-dead corpses, isn't.