BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / sherlock series 4 (spoilers inside)

**Posted by ewige** December 16, 2016 2:28 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Have you checked my earlier link, ewige? Spoilers, though!
Still, it is worth a thought.

Yes I did and I loved it

Vhanja,
maybe my little shipper heart doesn't want to see it. However I know what you mean and think Sherlock went a long way since those choices. Besides, Mary isn't extraordinary in any way. I mean, there used to be four assassins living in the Baker Str just a stone throw away. And Sherlock didn't take any of them on a market stroll with him.

**Posted by mrshouse** December 16, 2016 2:29 pm

Vhanja wrote:
I've seen it from the very first episode. How he focused on how clever the lady in pink was for "forgetting" her phone and leading them to the killer, instead of thinking about the tragedy of the murder. How he was all eager over the pip cases in TGG, and focused much more on the interesting cases than the tragedy of the victims on the phones.

Or how he praised the case of HoB while Henry was having a total breakdown, leading to John scolding him for "timing!" Or how John had to tell him to perhaps not so openly enjoy himself on the case due to kidnapped children... How he didn't care at all that Irene tricked him, drugged him and beat him because she was interesting.

Wouldn't that mean that he learnt exactly nothing whatsoever in three seasons? No progress from the great to the good man?

**Posted by Vhanja** December 16, 2016 2:31 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Wouldn't that mean that he learnt exactly nothing whatsoever in three seasons? No progress from the great to the good man?

Oh, there is. But he will alwyas be Sherlock.

**Posted by mrshouse** December 16, 2016 2:36 pm

But then - if he acknowledges Mary's skills, which she has, no doubt, as nothing but positive - then it's definitely not enough and room for four more seasons. Which would kill me.
Or they shift the focus, main-character-wise. Which would also kill me.

**Posted by Vhanja** December 16, 2016 2:42 pm

Well, we don't know if he acknowledges it as nothing but positive, only that he does acknowledge it in a positive manner.

Four more season? I don't know if I would even live that long.

dios - so true, we aren't being very Sherlockian here.

**Posted by Vhanja** December 16, 2016 3:36 pm

I liked this little meta/comment:

http://sherlocksbestfriend-john.tumblr.com/post/154530933051/this-isnt-sustainable

(And the "scooby doo" part had me laughing out loud).

**Posted by SusiGo** December 16, 2016 4:27 pm

I agree, Vhanja. I came home very late yesterday but of course had to find the clip. I was slightly alarmed but after I had watched it I could calmly go to bed. This is so over the top, just like the scene with John and Greg. It will not last (always provided it is for real which I am not sure about). This is not the stuff for three episodes and from all we have seen in the trailers as well as during setlock they are full of things that have nothing whatsoever to do with the baby. As far as I know, no baby was seen or cast after filming TST.

Let's be honest, we knew this was coming in some form. And we have not seen any happiness in connection with the baby. Tension, trouble, jealousy, not so nice banter - yes. Happiness - no. I will not lose any sleep over that.

Last edited by SusiGo (December 16, 2016 4:29 pm)

**Posted by kgreen20** December 16, 2016 5:47 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
mrshouse wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
The clips they are showing are all clips that "doesn't matter". Clip with no plot and nothing revealing. So a good thing about showing this scene to us so early, is that it tells us that this scene is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Very good point!
Absolutely!

Truer words were never spoken! And I agree with Liberty; I think there'll be humor and some fluff early in Episode 1, as indicated in that clip, but then things will begin to turn dark even during that first episode (and get darker still in Episodes 2 and 3). And I won't be at all surprised if one of the darker aspects turns out to be the deaths of Mary and the baby in Episode 2 or 3 (I don't expect either of them to die in Episode 1).

Last edited by kgreen20 (December 16, 2016 5:55 pm)

**Posted by kgreen20** December 16, 2016 5:50 pm

dioscureantwins wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Well, all I commented on was "acknowledging Mary's past and skill set in a positive manner", which I think is a very Sherlock thing to do. It's one of those defining things of Sherlock - at least BBC Sherlock - that he will praise the cleverness of a crime where other focus on the tragedy of it.
I absolutely agree with you here, Vhanja. Also, since the first S2 trailer aired Moftiss have managed to lead us up the garden path time and again. We're all theorising ahead of the facts. Which is lots of fun of course but so totally against Sherlock's approach towards solving puzzles.

All too true! We'd better wait until we've seen the episodes before we evaluate Sherlock and Mary. Only then will we be able to make accurate judgments.

And I still want that clip in which John and Greg tease Sherlock! Would somebody post it again, please?

Last edited by kgreen20 (December 16, 2016 5:57 pm)

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 16, 2016 6:00 pm

I don't really trust anything we have yet, either.

It's fun to speculate and guess and digest, though... but yeah, we know nothing yet I'm sure

**Posted by dioscureantwins** December 16, 2016 6:10 pm

kgreen20 wrote:
And I still want that clip in which John and Greg tease Sherlock! Would somebody post it again, please?

Go and have a look at the wonderful Ariane de Vere's LJ. She has the clips and the transcripts for let's admit, lovely as Sherlock's voice is, it's sometimes a bit difficult to catch what he's saying.

**Posted by Liberty** December 16, 2016 6:52 pm

So many posts to catch up on, but I wanted to bring up a couple of things ... the idea that Sherlock really, really likes Mary - I'm not saying that's confirmed, but it came to me a while back that it was an explanation that just seemed to tie everything together and make sense. Otherwise, I think you're constantly trying to find other explanations for various bits and pieces (Why does he align himself with her at the wedding? How could he forgive her? Why does he seem to set up a reconciliation? Why does he leave John with her? Why does he see her as helping in TAB? Etc, etc., etc.). And I think it's very powerful that in HLV we see Sherlock murdering/assassinating somebody, and not just anybody but Mary's target.

So I don't think it's out of the blue that he would continue along those lines in S4. Mary does have particular skills, and Sherlock seems to be OK with using those for the greater good. We'll see how far that goes. And it could certainly go too far! But I do think it's consistent with what we've seen. TAB in particular set that up, I think.

I agree that this clip is probably going to be a relatively trivial part of the show, and as I've said, I have reason to think that it takes place fairly early in TST. Which means that as there's an older baby here, there really isn't going to be a lot of time for the early "happy families" stuff that people are worried about - I think that's going to be skimmed over too.

The banter, I think, is fine. I prefer it to the banter in the scene with Lestrade (partly because I don't like Sherlock being infantilised!), but I don't think it's any worse than their usual stuff. It's the way they talk to each other.

And I also have in mind Amanda's words to describe Mary. I've talked about that in the "Mary" thread, but "heroine" may be a giveaway - it may well be that Mary is not going to be the villain.

Last edited by Liberty (December 16, 2016 8:18 pm)

**Posted by kgreen20** December 16, 2016 7:56 pm

dioscureantwins wrote:
kgreen20 wrote:
And I still want that clip in which John and Greg tease Sherlock! Would somebody post it again, please?

Go and have a look at the wonderful Ariane de Vere's LJ. She has the clips and the transcripts for let's admit, lovely as Sherlock's voice is, it's sometimes a bit difficult to catch what he's saying.

I'd love to, but finding accounts on LiveJournal isn't exactly an easy task. Could you post a link to her LJ account here, please?

I'm with Liberty regarding Mary, and regarding the fluff we've seen in the clips. I don't believe that Mary will turn out to be a true villain, if for no reason that it would be much too great a departure from canon. (ACD's Mary was anything but villainous, don't forget!) What I see is a flawed heroine, as was stated above. And with that said, what we see in the approaching episodes will, of course, prove me either right or wrong. =)

Last edited by kgreen20 (December 16, 2016 8:03 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** December 16, 2016 8:29 pm

I couldn't leave you in suspenders! Here's Ariane's LJ http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/ . It's a wonderful resource! Scroll down a bit for the links to the new clips.

I'm not so concerned about canon, but I do think Amanda's use of the words "flawed" and "heroine" may have been quite a big clue! I am happy to be proved wrong, of course! Either way is exciting ... but I think I would really like to see Mary redeem herself. I'm almost started to feel that's needed after HLV.

**Posted by Liberty** December 16, 2016 9:27 pm

I meant to mention (as this is spoiler thread), that we know from setlock that John and Rosie do go along with Sherlock, Mary and the dog. So it's not like they get left behind. It reminds me of the scene at the beginning of HLV where pregnant Mary comes along with John to the drug den!

**Posted by nakahara** December 16, 2016 9:30 pm

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** December 16, 2016 9:42 pm

Sucheck a sweet smile... sad it's probably forced!

Thanks for the gifs

**Posted by ewige** December 16, 2016 9:55 pm

I get all tingly just from the few seconds... it's new Sherlock, people. It's happening! *happy sigh*
Thank you for the gifs!

**Posted by Liberty** December 16, 2016 10:10 pm

I know! Yes, thank you! Every little new bit is exciting! I can't believe we only have DAYS to go!

**Posted by Lis** December 17, 2016 12:54 am

Yeah only days now, I can't wait! I think this coming week will go quickly because it's the lead up to Christmas and I'll probably be busy at work as well but the week after Christmas is probably going to feel like the longest week of my life!