BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / There's something about Mary

**Posted by Regina Alexandra** January 2, 2014 11:59 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
She has a history that she's keeping secret and that Magnussen will be determined to expose.

I think your deduction will prove to be correct. Sherlock's description includes: liar, secret, disillusioned, and clever. She is Magnussen's blackmail target. John's life placed in jeopardy is a message to her to take the blackmail seriously hence she is the recipient of the text messages.
I like the way Mary's character is presented in this episode. Amanda Abbington is brilliant in the role.
My biggest worry in this regard is that we shall accept her, and come to love her then the third episode will be..."His Last Vow". Wedding vows end with, "Till death us do part."
Will the writers be so cruel?

**Posted by Mrs. Watson** January 3, 2014 12:03 am

Regina Alexandra wrote:
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
She has a history that she's keeping secret and that Magnussen will be determined to expose.
I think your deduction will prove to be correct. Sherlock's description includes: liar, secret, disillusioned, and clever. She is Magnussen's blackmail target. John's life placed in jeopardy is a message to her to take the blackmail seriously hence she is the recipient of the text messages.
I like the way Mary's character is presented in this episode. Amanda Abbington is brilliant in the role.
My biggest worry in this regard is that we shall accept her, and come to love her then the third episode will be..."His Last Vow". Wedding vows end with, "Till death us do part."
Will the writers be so cruel?

Of course they will! IMHO that's why she is so likable (even Sherlock likes her!), because it will hurt twice when they kill her off (this is just a supposition of mine). And it will even be in canon because John was a widower. Twice.

**Posted by sirlockofthesher** January 3, 2014 12:38 am

I think Mary likes Sherlock because in a way she has several personality traits very much like Sherlock. 1. I like him -not a lot of he hawing there. She quickly can make deductions on people.
2. the skip code-smart, intelligent, quick, ect She too can maneuver through a good mystery.

I think Sherlock can see personality traits in Mary as plainly as he sees his physical resemblance in Molly's fiance. John may have gravitate toward Mary for these very reasons as so clearly Molly did toward her fiance.

**Posted by Sherli Bakerst** January 3, 2014 4:31 pm

Regina Alexandra wrote:
My biggest worry in this regard is that we shall accept her, and come to love her then the third episode will be..."His Last Vow". Wedding vows end with, "Till death us do part." Will the writers be so cruel?

Well, yes, they would. I'd expect Mary not to last beyond Series 3 because in the canon she doesn't stay on the scene for very long. And although Moftiss simultaneously adhere and adapt the canon to suit their own purposes, I somehow don't think they would stray so far away regarding this aspect of it.

Btw, I much prefer the Mary of S3 than the Mary of the actual stories.

**Posted by tonnaree** January 3, 2014 4:52 pm

I think Mary's story arc is going to shatter our hearts into a million pieces.

**Posted by beekeeper** January 3, 2014 9:08 pm

I deffo think there is a link between her and Milverton, that she is the actual target and that she is a whole lot more complex than she appears. I suspect he will force her to tell the truth and that this will rock our perceptions of her. I think she must be a plant or spy or something, but I also think that Sherlock has "read" her and trusted her and the results of his Sherlock Scan are actually always trustworthy. Just as John always technically tells the truth, Sherlock Scans of people always seem basically correct.

As an aside its kind of interesting, we really learn very little about John. Sherlock is meant to be this great man of mystery but we have now met, we assume, his whole family, not to mention someone he went to uni with and Mrs H. John otoh, we know relatively little about.

I thnk my thing with the skip code, on reflection, isn t that she spotted the code but the langauge she used to describe it. It sounds like a technical thing, non layperson and yet her known skill areas-linguistics and nursing-aren't obviously comptable with it. As a native English speaker I might have said "skip a word code" but not "skip code.". TBH I would have thought its more a thing a mathematician might know. Yes its a nod to the books, the one with Victor Trevor-can't quite remember the name-but Holmes solved the cipher, neither Watson nor his friend Victor Trevor had any idea at all.

Last edited by beekeeper (January 3, 2014 9:22 pm)

**Posted by NotYourHousekeeperDear** January 3, 2014 9:13 pm

beekeeper wrote:
As an aside its kind of interesting, we really learn very little about John. Sherlock is meant to be this great man of mystery but we have now met, we assume, his whole family, not to mention someone he went to uni with and Mrs H. John otoh, we know relatively little about.

Good point. I wonder if we will meet Harry at the wedding?

Last edited by NotYourHousekeeperDear (January 3, 2014 9:15 pm)

**Posted by stoertebeker** January 3, 2014 9:16 pm

beekeeper wrote:
As an aside its kind of interesting, we really learn very little about John. Sherlock is meant to be this great man of mystery but we have now met, we assume, his whole family, not to mention someone he went to uni with and Mrs H. John otoh, we know relatively little about.

I hope that'll change next episode. I hope we got at least getting to know Harry. And I hope Mike Stamford will be there also. Besides if I remember correctly Sherlock deduced about John in ASiP that John hasn't a big family.

**Posted by beekeeper** January 3, 2014 9:46 pm

Think I remember that Sherlock deduced John had no close extended family? So he might have family but want to keep apart from them.

I really, really hope we see Harry. The trouble is that if she is played by anyone other than Catherine Tate it just won't work. I think the fandom has totally decided it has to be Catherine Tate. She isn't listed as appearing in Sunday's episode but that might mean it is a surprise....(crossing fingers...)

But my hunch is that we won't see his family at the wedding. In the books it is the same, we see relatively little of Watson's personal life especially given he is writing the books.

Last edited by beekeeper (January 3, 2014 9:47 pm)

**Posted by silverblaze** January 3, 2014 10:17 pm

Not everyone was listed in TEH either. I'm still trying to work out who played Moran, such a familiar face, but I don't remember the name. And Benedict's parents weren't listed either.

**Posted by SusiGo** January 3, 2014 10:24 pm

beekeeper wrote:
Think I remember that Sherlock deduced John had no close extended family? So he might have family but want to keep apart from them.

I really, really hope we see Harry. The trouble is that if she is played by anyone other than Catherine Tate it just won't work. I think the fandom has totally decided it has to be Catherine Tate. She isn't listed as appearing in Sunday's episode but that might mean it is a surprise....(crossing fingers...)

But my hunch is that we won't see his family at the wedding. In the books it is the same, we see relatively little of Watson's personal life especially given he is writing the books.

Sorry, I practically live on tumblr but I never even heard the name Catherine Tate. Googled her now. But I never knew the fandom decided she had to be Harry.

Last edited by SusiGo (January 3, 2014 10:26 pm)

**Posted by tonnaree** January 3, 2014 10:25 pm

Has it ever been officially established who's older, Harry or John?

**Posted by Mrs. Watson** January 3, 2014 10:28 pm

I wonder what secret CAM knows about Mary and how did she hide it so well because, honestly, if Mycroft knows where John is having dinner that might I'm sure he has investigated his girlfriend. And if Mycroft didn't find out, then it's something very well hidden.

**Posted by besleybean** January 3, 2014 10:30 pm

Mid late 30s?

**Posted by Wholocked** January 4, 2014 2:45 am

Mrs. Watson wrote:
I wonder what secret CAM knows about Mary and how did she hide it so well because, honestly, if Mycroft knows where John is having dinner that might I'm sure he has investigated his girlfriend. And if Mycroft didn't find out, then it's something very well hidden.

If you look at the words that appear when Sherlock 'scans' Mary outside the deli, "Liar" and "Secret" are there. If Sherlock saw that on a cursory scan, Mycroft certainly knows. That is, assuming Mycroft bothered to look. John is of no interest to Mycroft aside from his friendship with Sherlock.

**Posted by besleybean** January 4, 2014 8:36 am

I love the concept of 'scan'. makes me think of Babylon 5!

**Posted by beekeeper** January 4, 2014 9:38 am

Swanpride wrote:
I wonder how they got the idea....but yeah, I notice that too, like how the "secret" first floats in and later you read "secret Tattoo". They are trolling us again.

Perhaps guardian means that she grew up not at her parents, but with a guardian.

That would be consistent with canon, where Mary Morstan was sent back to England after her parents died and grew up, iirc, at schools and with relatives.

**Posted by silverblaze** January 4, 2014 11:45 am

Hahaha, poor Moftiss can now only cast Catherine Tate or the fandom will be deeply disappointed.

No I don't really feel sorry for them.

**Posted by stoertebeker** January 4, 2014 12:07 pm

tonnaree wrote:
Has it ever been officially established who's older, Harry or John?

According to canon, Harry should be older. In the original stories John had a elder brother, right?

**Posted by kittykat** January 4, 2014 2:00 pm

The newspapers shown in Scandal when Sherlock is seen with the deerstalker...I'm sure one of them gives John's age as 37.