BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Series 3 discussion SPOILER THREAD!!! WARNING!!! SPOILERS!!!

September 11, 2013 1:55 pm

sj4iy wrote:
Be wrote:
Maybe you are right.
I am not quite convinced. The phone call at the pool, what Moriarty said and what Irene possibly said... It's not right. Something is missing, IMO.

M: Hello?
I: Is this a bad time?
M: Yes, of course it is. What do you want? (Sorry)
I: I have some information from an MOD man about (name of Terrorist Project).
M: SAY THAT AGAIN! Say that again, and know if you are lying to me, I will find you, and I wil skiiiin you.
I: I have the information you need for (name of Terrorist Project).
M: Oi. (To Sherlock) Sorry. Wrong day to die.
S: Oh? Did you get a better offer?
M: You'll be hearing from me, Sherlock. (To Irene) So, if you have what you say you have, I'll make you rich. If not, I'll make you into shoes. (exits, calls off the snipers)
J: What happened there?
S: Someone changed his mind. Question is: Who?
(cut to Irene Adler hanging up the phone)

It's unmistakably, inarguably, Irene Adler that Moriarty is talking to. Moriarty only calls off their deaths because he knows he can use Sherlock later.

We can discuss this and we probably won't convince each other. Anyway.
Moriarty's reaction between What do you want and Say that again is unique.
He is full of fury and anger. He is practically outraged. He spins around and shouts. Why?
If it was Irene with a nice way to get to Sherlock and torture him a bit longer he would like it very much and maybe fake some minor interest to get the information.

SusiGo · September 11, 2013 2:04 pm

So this is how Benedict describes what happens in series 3. It is from a brand new Hollywood Reporter video:

He comes back. He's reunited. And John is united with someone else. And Sherlock helps with that. And there's an incredible new villain on the scene.

source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/benedict-cumberbatch-confessions-fifth-estate-625408

Last edited by SusiGo (September 11, 2013 2:29 pm)

the_dancing_woman · September 11, 2013 2:11 pm

sj4iy wrote:
M: Hello?
I: Is this a bad time?
M: Yes, of course it is. What do you want? (Sorry)
I: I have some information from an MOD man about (name of Terrorist Project).
M: SAY THAT AGAIN! Say that again, and know if you are lying to me, I will find you, and I wil skiiiin you.
I: I have the information you need for (name of Terrorist Project).
M: Oi. (To Sherlock) Sorry. Wrong day to die.
S: Oh? Did you get a better offer?
M: You'll be hearing from me, Sherlock. (To Irene) So, if you have what you say you have, I'll make you rich. If not, I'll make you into shoes. (exits, calls off the snipers)
J: What happened there?
S: Someone changed his mind. Question is: Who?
(cut to Irene Adler hanging up the phone)

It's unmistakably, inarguably, Irene Adler that Moriarty is talking to. Moriarty only calls off their deaths because he knows he can use Sherlock later.

Quite plausible, yes.

As for Irene Adler in BBC's Sherlock, as much as I liked her part, she came, she was there, took part in the greater game for a little while, she left, done. (There are a few Holmes pastiche novels concerning Irene Adler btw)

Moriarty, he was an insane genius, a spider in the centre of a web, incredibly intelligent and bored to pieces by everyone else around him, he found out about Sherlock Holmes and decided that he would have a bit of fun with him... I for my part don't know what there would be left to explain about his character, except the obvious loose threads concerning the end game between him and Sherlock in Reichenbach, once this is done, Moriarty is done too.
As far as I remember it there isn't much more of an explanation for Moriarty and his deeds in the canon either. "Every fairy tale needs a good old fashioned villain", would be the basic explanation for Moriarty's existence in both the Holmes canon and BBC's Sherlock.
And Sherlock certainly didn't survive by sheer luck, as it has been stated by Gatiss and Moffat many times. How he did survive..., now this is an explanation we won't be bereft of.

Let's move on, the game is on/afoot once more, new criminals to deal with, new stories to tell. No need to linger over cold tea

sj4iy · September 11, 2013 2:28 pm

Be wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
Be wrote:
Maybe you are right.
I am not quite convinced. The phone call at the pool, what Moriarty said and what Irene possibly said... It's not right. Something is missing, IMO.

M: Hello?
I: Is this a bad time?
M: Yes, of course it is. What do you want? (Sorry)
I: I have some information from an MOD man about (name of Terrorist Project).
M: SAY THAT AGAIN! Say that again, and know if you are lying to me, I will find you, and I wil skiiiin you.
I: I have the information you need for (name of Terrorist Project).
M: Oi. (To Sherlock) Sorry. Wrong day to die.
S: Oh? Did you get a better offer?
M: You'll be hearing from me, Sherlock. (To Irene) So, if you have what you say you have, I'll make you rich. If not, I'll make you into shoes. (exits, calls off the snipers)
J: What happened there?
S: Someone changed his mind. Question is: Who?
(cut to Irene Adler hanging up the phone)

It's unmistakably, inarguably, Irene Adler that Moriarty is talking to. Moriarty only calls off their deaths because he knows he can use Sherlock later.

We can discuss this and we probably won't convince each other. Anyway.
Moriarty's reaction between What do you want and Say that again is unique.
He is full of fury and anger. He is practically outraged. He spins around and shouts. Why?
If it was Irene with a nice way to get to Sherlock and torture him a bit longer he would like it very much and maybe fake some minor interest to get the information.

He's an unbalanced psychopath- he overreacts to everything. But here's the question:

Why would it cut directly to Irene after Sherlock says "Someone changed his mind. The question is, 'who'?" if it weren't Irene that Moriarty was talking to? It makes absolutely no sense otherwise. If you fill in the gaps in the conversation with what we know happens later, it all makes perfect sense. Otherwise, it makes no sense at all.

Mattlocked · September 11, 2013 3:03 pm

The cut shows us undoubtly that it was Irene Moriarty was talking to.
She saved their life. And later on Sherlock saved hers. Perfect.

Now back to the topic: Our future - S3:
(nice suit, btw....)

SusiGo wrote:
So this is how Benedict describes what happens in series 3. It is from a brand new Hollywood Reporter video:

He comes back. He's reunited. And John is united with someone else. And Sherlock helps with that. And there's an incredible new villain on the scene.

source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/benedict-cumberbatch-confessions-fifth-estate-625408

Last edited by Mattlocked (September 11, 2013 3:06 pm)

tobeornot221b · September 11, 2013 3:26 pm

A nice and even visually attractive interview.
Benedict doesn't tell us anything new after all - maybe except for the "Sherlock helps with that" bit. "Help" could mean everything from being just "best man" at John's wedding to forcing John into a relationship.

SusiGo · September 11, 2013 3:33 pm

Yes, that was the sentence that made me think.

P.S. The written interview is … interesting. And a bit controversial. You cannot and should not be everybody's darling.

Last edited by SusiGo (September 11, 2013 3:34 pm)

sj4iy · September 11, 2013 3:37 pm

I have to sympathize with BC's attitude in this interview. Using the words "prickly" and "icy" are easy when someone isn't cooperative in an interview, but I can't imagine what it's like to live in the public eye simply because you want to be an entertainer. So many fans can't separate fantasy and real life, reporters and photographers hound your every move, and suddenly your life is simplified down to the sound bites that will garner the most publicity. It's often easy to justify everything by saying "Well, he chose that life"...but I don't think anyone is ever truly prepared for it. I'm glad he was very forceful about having the story about his South African savior told, because it's very easy to look at the negatives side of South Africa. One of my good friends in college was from South Africa, and she was on a bus that was stopped by a group of armed men who then took some of the people off of the bus (her included). She was very matter-of-fact about the fact that she was raped, simply because she was so grateful to have been let go alive. I couldn't even imagine it in my wildest dreams, but I think it's very easy for us to get lost in the fantastical sometimes and forget what it's like for many people out there in many parts of the world.

Anyway, I appreciate the piece very much.

QuiteExtraordinary · September 11, 2013 4:12 pm

Honestly, it's best to watch videos of Benedict's interviews (there are many) so you can make your own judgements about his attitude and behaviour. In the press they usually exaggerate or make stuff up just to make the story more interesting.

besleybean · September 11, 2013 4:42 pm

There's a big stooshie on Twitter about THAT interview.
I've just had the day from Hell at work.
So believe me, that interview does not seem that bad to me at all!

sj4iy · September 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Eh, people on twitter always have to make a big deal out of nothing to pretend that they actually have something interesting to say.

the_dancing_woman · September 11, 2013 5:08 pm

The thing with those written down interviews is the interviewer when putting it to paper can pretty much make of it whatever he or she wants. I agree that video interviews generally give a better and truer impression of a person. And who can blame him for having become a bit wary of the press by now. (Caitlin Moran's "Times" interview was a good one.)

But I really like the idea of him being in a movie directed by the amazing Gary Oldman!

besleybean · September 11, 2013 5:11 pm

Me too!

SolarSystem · September 11, 2013 5:15 pm

...and me too, that would certainly be great! (But this is getting a little off topic now...)

besleybean · September 11, 2013 5:17 pm

I apologise...I do have a bad influence on people!

SolarSystem · September 11, 2013 5:21 pm

Oh, don't you worry, I'm usually not all that well-behaved anyway.

besleybean · September 12, 2013 5:35 am

Tho to be fair, the lady neighbour did apologise.
In fact didn't she bake him a cake to say ' sorry'?!

Mattlocked · September 12, 2013 8:20 am

besleybean wrote:
Tho to be fair, the lady neighbour did apologise.
In fact didn't she bake him a cake to say ' sorry'?!

How generous of her.

besleybean · September 12, 2013 4:30 pm

She wasn't a stalker as such...
She is one of his neighbours.

Mattlocked · September 12, 2013 4:32 pm

Perfect combination - a stalking neighbour.