Offline
I don't know if this will make much sense but please read and give me your opinion.
This is Sherlock falling (hope Yotube doesn't block/remove the video):
The sequence lasts 9 seconds but if you observe it carefully, it's actually the same part of the fall shown from different angles, as shown in these caps (please notice Sherlock's position in front of the windows):
So, we really only see 3 seconds (+/-) of Sherlock falling and two replays of the same action which in total is about 7 seconds of the footage.
Considering the velocity of the fall we can infer that it takes Sherlock 4 seconds (or maybe 3.5 seconds) to reach the pavement... if he reaches the pavement.
The following cap shows the last frame of "falling Sherlock" that we see. When compared with tobeornot221b's photo, it's shows that he is at first floor level (second floor for us):
After this frame the camera cuts to "Sherlock" hitting the pavement. And I put quotation marks because we never see Sherlock's face. We see a body dressed as Sherlock but since the timing of what we see has been altered I can think of a couple of ideas here (especially considering we know Sherlock survived):
Sherlock jumps and it takes him about 3.5 seconds to hit the pavement. There are 3-4 seconds "missing" until we see him hit the ground. This can be due:
1) They just wanted us to appreciate the fall properly since it happens so fast so they repeated it from different angles.
2) "Something" happens in those 3-4 seconds that we aren't supposed to see. This can be:
2.1. Sherlock lands on a net (like the ones used in the circus) and then he rolls out of the net and falls on the pavement unhurt. Subsequently he or the people around him (who are there to help him) can i.e. spill a blood bag around his head to make him look hurt.
2.2. Sherlock lands on an inflatable stunt air bag which is immediately deflated and hidden by his "helpers" and he lays on the floor with fake blood around his head (most probably) or a dead body wearing a mask is placed on the pavement (I think this requires more preparation so it's less probable but still possible)
The real brilliance of this is that although John doesn't see Sherlock hit the pavement (the small building in front of the hospital blocks his view) WE DO. If we hadn't seen "Sherlock" hit the ground and we had only see his body when John reaches him it would be easy to say "well, he landed on an air bag and then they hid it, etc." but we do see him land. So they really have only 3-4 seconds to do whatever they do. But it's quite interesting that even when we get 3 different angles of the fall, the image of "Sherlock" landing is shot so close that it's blurred. Here is the video in slow motion:
What is also interesting is that the shot is so closed up that we can't see what's happening around him (only in front of him and with a very limited view). After that we see John in shock and the camera stays with John so anything can be happening around "Sherlock".
I personally think that the explanation is something close to what's said in 2.1.
What do you think?
PS: Excuse any grammar/spelling mistake.
Offline
Mrs. Watson wrote:
I personally think that the explanation is something close to what's said in 2.1.
What do you think?
PS: Excuse any grammar/spelling mistake.
To me it was always something like you have described in your point 2.1. No dummy or something like that, exactly a situation as you have pictured. I don´t know whether it was a net or something similar (maybe spread out from the little truck??), but I also think, Sherlock jumped, his jump was stopped in the last meters and quickly he fell the last part then from a low point. Faked blood, stopped pulse and everything came from the people around him. Simple and brief .....
Last edited by anjaH_alias (August 21, 2013 10:18 am)
Offline
Swanpride wrote:
I'm sure he stopped his pulse with the ball he was playing with beforehand....there is a reason why nobody allowed John to come close enough to check at the throat, where you are suppose to do it, instead of the wrist.
I think that the ball is a good guess. I'm sure there are other ways to stop the pulse or slowing it down to a minimum but that would be a simple and available solution
We must also consider the cyclist that knocks John down. He is ovbiously trying to delay him.
Offline
Swanpride wrote:
I'm sure he stopped his pulse with the ball he was playing with beforehand....there is a reason why nobody allowed John to come close enough to check at the throat, where you are suppose to do it, instead of the wrist.
Exactly There was the "doctor" who had his fingers on the carotid pulse the entire time, leaving John no choice but to try the wrist.
Offline
Yes, and the same doctor pushed Sherlock´s side/arm to the ground - to make the ball work, that´s what I assume.
Last edited by anjaH_alias (August 21, 2013 9:24 pm)
Offline
I've actually thought of the theory presented in 2.1, but one thing that bugs me, is that if he landed on a net, then how do you explain us seeing him hit the ground? I know that people would probably say 'that's because he's falling off the net' or whatever, but you can see that he bounces almost when he hits the ground, I don't think you would fall like that if you were simply falling perhaps a metre from the ground, off a net
Offline
sherlockian111 wrote:
I've actually thought of the theory presented in 2.1, but one thing that bugs me, is that if he landed on a net, then how do you explain us seeing him hit the ground? I know that people would probably say 'that's because he's falling off the net' or whatever, but you can see that he bounces almost when he hits the ground, I don't think you would fall like that if you were simply falling perhaps a metre from the ground, off a net
The shot of him "bouncing" is so close up that a fall from any height would create that effect, even if he's just flopping on the ground.
Offline
Mrs. Watson wrote:
I don't know if this will make much sense but please read and give me your opinion.
This is Sherlock falling (hope Yotube doesn't block/remove the video):
The sequence lasts 9 seconds but if you observe it carefully, it's actually the same part of the fall shown from different angles, as shown in these caps (please notice Sherlock's position in front of the windows):
So, we really only see 3 seconds (+/-) of Sherlock falling and two replays of the same action which in total is about 7 seconds of the footage.
Considering the velocity of the fall we can infer that it takes Sherlock 4 seconds (or maybe 3.5 seconds) to reach the pavement... if he reaches the pavement.
The following cap shows the last frame of "falling Sherlock" that we see. When compared with tobeornot221b's photo, it's shows that he is at first floor level (second floor for us):
After this frame the camera cuts to "Sherlock" hitting the pavement. And I put quotation marks because we never see Sherlock's face. We see a body dressed as Sherlock but since the timing of what we see has been altered I can think of a couple of ideas here (especially considering we know Sherlock survived):
Sherlock jumps and it takes him about 3.5 seconds to hit the pavement. There are 3-4 seconds "missing" until we see him hit the ground. This can be due:
1) They just wanted us to appreciate the fall properly since it happens so fast so they repeated it from different angles.
2) "Something" happens in those 3-4 seconds that we aren't supposed to see. This can be:
2.1. Sherlock lands on a net (like the ones used in the circus) and then he rolls out of the net and falls on the pavement unhurt. Subsequently he or the people around him (who are there to help him) can i.e. spill a blood bag around his head to make him look hurt.
2.2. Sherlock lands on an inflatable stunt air bag which is immediately deflated and hidden by his "helpers" and he lays on the floor with fake blood around his head (most probably) or a dead body wearing a mask is placed on the pavement (I think this requires more preparation so it's less probable but still possible)
The real brilliance of this is that although John doesn't see Sherlock hit the pavement (the small building in front of the hospital blocks his view) WE DO. If we hadn't seen "Sherlock" hit the ground and we had only see his body when John reaches him it would be easy to say "well, he landed on an air bag and then they hid it, etc." but we do see him land. So they really have only 3-4 seconds to do whatever they do. But it's quite interesting that even when we get 3 different angles of the fall, the image of "Sherlock" landing is shot so close that it's blurred. Here is the video in slow motion:
What is also interesting is that the shot is so closed up that we can't see what's happening around him (only in front of him and with a very limited view). After that we see John in shock and the camera stays with John so anything can be happening around "Sherlock".
I personally think that the explanation is something close to what's said in 2.1.
What do you think?
PS: Excuse any grammar/spelling mistake.
In the shot above where sherlock is lying on the cement. In the background there is a greenbox to the left and then something that looks like a bus stop directly in the middle of the sidewalk. Is that there in real life? Not from London so.... I am trying to find the mechanism or structure that Sherlock would fall onto... It has to be in the show somewhere...
Thank you for any help on this
Offline
Here's a real life photo of the site.
Yes, it is a bus stop.
Offline
I believe the bus stop is there.
Offline
hmmm ok. Bus Stop is there. I too am leaning toward sherlock actually jumping (it's a person standing on that ledge, dropping the phone, and jumping. Sherlock would not kill someone by making them jump to their suicide so that theory is out. So the person falling is Sherlock. I just believe that the mechanism that saves Sherlock must be presented in one form or another during RF.
The writers could write in anything to "catch" Sherlock. But I think they would present this mechanism in RF in someway before/during Sherlock's Fall. So, where is it? What is it? If I can't find it then Sherlock must have faked his death some other way in RF. So I am searching...
What is that quote that Sherlock is always saying, "whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" so my deductions continue
possibilities I am contemplating so far for premise that it is Sherlock actually falling:
a.Side of truck unfolding-not likely
b.Something (net) in the paper bags on bench (or does this person leave on the red bus)
c. truck drives up on the "white square" pulls away and then backs up (the truck is seen shifting possitions in the video) could it have driven up on the sidewalk? I like this one. Anyone disagree on this happening?
d. Net is put out through window of building and attached to the heavy red truck with the bags in it. Molly would be involved perhaps in pulling the net back through the window and closing it. What's on the first floor of the pathology side of the hospital?
I saw a spoiler of footage shot this day to which none of my theories can explain it. Is this a spoiler free section?
PS. Going back to see if busstop is in same local in video as in this picture...and yes it is. so nothing moveable on that train of thought
Last edited by sirlockofthesher (November 17, 2013 3:46 am)
Offline
I don't know if this is offiicially spoiler free or not,
But my argunent has always been why would somebody want to read a thread like this, if they didn't want spoliers?
But anyway, you'll need to ask a member of staff.
There is apparently footage that shows Sherlock does indedd jump into the truck.
Yet I know other people who swear by the net theory.
As for the clue thing.
We're supposed to see it in SCANDAL I think, where the newspaper Sherlock ia reading says about building work at Barts.
Last edited by besleybean (November 17, 2013 8:24 am)
Offline
^ I see no construction happening at Barts but I did notice the refit of a hospital article. Refit-means remodeling of building right? So, how could construction/rennovation of a building assist Sherlock in faking his death? Closing of areas to foot or car traffic perhaps?
Other than the truck, I see nothing in RF that could brace his fall. The bag items disappear before the truck with the bags appear so that net theory isn't right.
A net through the window still works though but...conjecture. I see nothing references the availability of a net in any of the shows.
The only thing that could remotely brace his fall was the truck with the bags.
Offline
besleybean wrote:
....
As for the clue thing.
We're supposed to see it in SCANDAL I think, where the newspaper Sherlock ia reading says about building work at Barts.
Wow, finally someone mentioned this. I've been skimming this forum for months looking to see if others thought the same way and figured either it was too spoilery or it was completely missed and have been working on a detailed write-up before starting up an account.
Here's a pic of the clue from 37:45 into the episode
What gives the clue some legitimacy is the DVD/Blu-ray commentary which went like this:
Benedict: Oh look...Refit for Historical Hospital
All: ummm, hmm **laughs**
Mark: Some scaffolding that never happened
Benedict: Ha ha. Shall we talk about that? We can talk about that? Can't we?
Steven: Perhaps a dream
Steven: Yeah, umm, yes
Benedict: Turn off your commentary guide now if you haven't seen Episode 3 but if you have
Steven: Episode 3 is on top of St. Bart's Hospital and there was going to be ....that was a sort of seeding for the idea that there was some building work going on which actually did go on.
So, if the real St. Barts didn't get a refit, it sounds like Sherlock could have jumped from the roof on to some scaffolding part-way down, applied blood, then did a second jump on to the pavement and pretended to be dead.
There may be more jumps involved to explain why the scaffolding wasn't visible to onlookers and camera shots. From some shots, it looks like there is a slightly bigger roof below the one Sherlock and Moriarty were on and if Sherlock jumped onto the lower roof, he could then run to his left and jump straight down to where the scaffolding would need to be then jump parallel to St. Barts to the pavement which would explain why he lands parallel to St. Barts instead of perpendicular based on the way he jumped from the top roof.
Offline
^ Hi. Good clue. Do you see scaffolding anywhere from John's point of view when sherlock is on the roof? We know when Sherlock is standing on the roof, directly below there is a shot where you can see from roof down the ground -no scaffolding. No scaffolding in "drop zone"
So the question is-How does a refit of a hospital help fake a suicide jump when no scaffolding is present? uhg..i'm starting to think he grew wings
Offline
"The clue" apparently has to be in TRF. As the refit article is from SCANDAL it can't be associated with how Sherlock did it.
Offline
sirlockofthesher wrote:
^ Hi. Good clue. Do you see scaffolding anywhere from John's point of view when sherlock is on the roof? We know when Sherlock is standing on the roof, directly below there is a shot where you can see from roof down the ground -no scaffolding. No scaffolding in "drop zone"
So the question is-How does a refit of a hospital help fake a suicide jump when no scaffolding is present? uhg..i'm starting to think he grew wings
If the scaffolding idea is the solution, I expect the scaffolding was located to the left of where the camera was looking down.
I mentioned there appeared to be a slightly bigger roof below the one Sherlock was standing on. I've circled the edges of the 2 roofs in yellow. You can see where Sherlock's feet are protruding from the upper roof.
The two roofs can be seen in greater detail in this wider-angle shot when Sherlock is talking to John. Notice how the lower roof protrudes at the corner.
This is a shot from when John initially got out of the cab and approached St. Bart's before turning around, I think we get to see a shot of the lower roof from Sherlock's perspective. Notice the moss.
When Sherlock passes below the lower roof, notice he is passing by the letter "D" instead of the "G" that he was standing over on the upper roof.
From this shot, we see John still watching Sherlock as he passes the 2nd set of windows so the scaffolding was pretty close to the ground.
But this also shows that John would have been watching Sherlock as he jumped between the two roofs and moved to the left to position himself over the scaffolding which means he would know that there was something strange about how he fell and where he landed which could foil Sherlock's plan. It could also explain why John had hope that Sherlock survived.
@tobeornot221b, maybe this isn't "The Clue" but it could be a clue.
Offline
Well thought-out theory, Commonwealth!
But still, you know...
Offline
tobeornot221b wrote:
Well thought-out theory, Commonwealth!
But still, you know...
Yup, just placing my bet either way. May the best theory win.
Offline
We'll see in the end. I wonder if "the clue" is Sherlock asking Moriarty all these questions, how he managed to get into the tower etc. Isn't this rather untypical "out of character" for Sherlock to do, you know, not knowing things? He might have recorded the whole conversation on the rooftop. I know, this has been pointed out a thousand times before, but I still think it's an important detail.