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December 16, 2012 2:21 am  #1


A few questions

Apologies if these questions have already been answered, but there are a few things I didn't understand in this episode:
1 - Why did Moriarty kill himself? Yes, because he didn't want Sherlock to 'win', but what exactly did Sherlock do to convince Moriarty that Sherlock had 'won'?
2 - Was there any relevancy, in terms of Moriarty's plot, to the assassins assassinating one another to get to Sherlock? And why did Moriarty want the assassins to think Sherlock had the 'key'. Why did he pretend to give Sherlock the key?
3 - Why did Sherlock tell John, just before he jumped, that he was a fraud? The assassins were instructed to lower their weapons when Sherlock jumped, they weren't instructed to do anything with regards to Sherlock falsely confessing he was a fraud. So why did he make the false confession?

Sorry if I'm being terribly dense here. It's a fantastic episode but I didn't understand it all. Thanks for any replies.

 

December 16, 2012 8:56 am  #2


Re: A few questions

1.  Moriarty had a breakdown.
2.  I think that was just Moriarty ' playing' with the keycode idea. He was an insane psychopath...well, if you can have sane psychopaths!
3.  Sherlock had to make John believe he had a reason to kill himself.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

December 16, 2012 1:36 pm  #3


Re: A few questions

mrwho995 wrote:

Apologies if these questions have already been answered, but there are a few things I didn't understand in this episode:
1 - Why did Moriarty kill himself? Yes, because he didn't want Sherlock to 'win', but what exactly did Sherlock do to convince Moriarty that Sherlock had 'won'?
2 - Was there any relevancy, in terms of Moriarty's plot, to the assassins assassinating one another to get to Sherlock? And why did Moriarty want the assassins to think Sherlock had the 'key'. Why did he pretend to give Sherlock the key?
3 - Why did Sherlock tell John, just before he jumped, that he was a fraud? The assassins were instructed to lower their weapons when Sherlock jumped, they weren't instructed to do anything with regards to Sherlock falsely confessing he was a fraud. So why did he make the false confession?

Sorry if I'm being terribly dense here. It's a fantastic episode but I didn't understand it all. Thanks for any replies.

1. Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss once asked themselves of what kind somebody could be who frightens us to death nowadays. Their conclusion was - a suicide bomber. Somebody who is so much obsessed with an idea that he is even willing to kill himself. Moriarty is obsessed with Sherlock, to burn him and to kill him. For this he even resists the methods of Mycroft´s interrogations. On the rooftop finally he seems to have solved the final problem: Because there is no recall code Sherlock is willing to jump into his own death to save his friends. But then Moriarty fluffs: He accidentally reveals that there is a possibility to recall everything.Sherlock realizes that, convinced to get the code out of him, to maybe deduce it. He is not Mycroft and not the King´s horses. He is not even an angel, just on the side of them. He can convince Moriarty that they are still alike and Moriarty, insane as he is, believes this: If one is able to get anything out of him then Sherlock (at the point when he realizes that, directly at the end of the sentence "I am not one of them", there is a kind of thunder and lightening camera and sound efffect, the moment of Moriarty´s literal enlightment, if you want so). To bring his plan to a successful end he must necessarily kill himself. If Sherlock actually had get the code out of him in the end is left open, but more important is, that he also was convinced about that. So he was absolutely able to be deeply persuasive to Moriarty.
2. In short: Moriarty likes to see Sherlock dance. This is why he pretends to give him the key. And because the key´s in Sherlock´s head the assassins try to save his life on the one hand, but on the other hand they try to prevent each other to talk to him, even to touch him. "Last one at Sherlock is a sissy", the last one will get the key and was careful enough before not to get assassinated.
3. Sherlock must give John a reason for committing suicide. He can´t obviously tell the truth. The world shall believe that Sherlock is a fraud, so that gives him time to clear up the things afterwards. If we follow the canon Moriarty´s death is just the beginning: There are many threads of the spider´s web which still function. In my view Sherlock and Mycroft planned since a longer time to destroy also the whole spider´s web, And for this Sherlock has to be dead. And has to fall from grace before to have convincingly done this by himself.They couldn´t let John in that plan, he is not able to lie. For  this also the body of Moriarty had to disappear. The world should believe that the literal fall was"just" the commitment of a fraud, nothing else. So there is peace to clear up everything in the dark. It´s time for whitening Sherlock´s reputation after everything´s sorted out. And, yes, I hope this will be fact soon, can´t wait for this ;-)), In the original story three years have passed meanwhile - poor John.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (December 16, 2012 1:40 pm)

 

December 16, 2012 11:00 pm  #4


Re: A few questions

thanks.

     Thread Starter
 

December 17, 2012 2:00 am  #5


Re: A few questions

Just wanted to say I've thought of quite a few of those things before, but you just have a really nice way of putting it!!  That little face-off you describe between them on the roof....  that moment it gets to the point where they realize the depth the other person is playing the 'game', always get a bit of a chill from.  And even the duplicity going on, also, with Mycroft and John.  Seriously good writing, and seriously wondering how he's going to 'turn the tide' for himself when he 'comes back'.....


_________________________________________________________________________

We solve crimes, I blog about it, and he forgets his pants.  I wouldn't hold out too much hope!

Just this morning you were all tiny and small and made of clay!

I'm working my way up the greasy pole.  It's… very greasy.  And…  pole-shaped.
 

January 1, 2013 6:37 pm  #6


Re: A few questions

Just want to put in my thoughts:
1. Remember that Moriarty is a psychopath.To kill himself out of boredom or just for fulfilling part of a plan can't be that much of a surprise.When sherlock says : "I am You" he is like "Oh yeah, Is that so? beat THIS" and kills himself.When somebody tells you that they are the same person as you , I at least would try to prove them wrong, at any cost.and that's what I believe Moriarty did.
Moriarty himself says his only weakness is he changes his mind a lot.so this has not been planned or anything.it just happened on an impulse.

Last edited by immortal (January 1, 2013 6:42 pm)

 

January 1, 2013 6:53 pm  #7


Re: A few questions

I'm still not entirely sure I believe Moriaty is dead. I don't remember Sherlock turning him over and looking into the wound, just seeing the blood flowing. That could be faked. It'd be difficult to fake, sure, but it's Moriarty. I find both his death being real and it being faked possible.

My first thought upon seeing him fall, even before he hit the ground, was, "So... how could he have faked that...?"

 

January 1, 2013 7:37 pm  #8


Re: A few questions

Steven Moffat has confirmed that Moriarty is dead.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 7:39 pm  #9


Re: A few questions

Following canon, which Steven and Mark do, Moriarty is definitely and definitively dead.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

January 1, 2013 7:50 pm  #10


Re: A few questions

besleybean wrote:

Steven Moffat has confirmed that Moriarty is dead.

Davina wrote:

Following canon, which Steven and Mark do, Moriarty is definitely and definitively dead.)

Ah, it's been some time since I read any of the stories, so didn't remember canon. Thanks.

 

January 22, 2013 9:03 am  #11


Re: A few questions

Sherlock must've realised at some point that Moriaty likes to watch him dance (heck, the poor dude wearing a bomb even told him so), likes to watch him solve the puzzle. So it must have occurred to Sherlock, what would happen if he stopped solving Moriaty's puzzles? What if he just decided to take on 'ordinary' cases?


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That's the thing about fanfiction, it's always a self-portrait
People want to believe what is easy, rather than what is right.
"One begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts"
 

January 22, 2013 5:06 pm  #12


Re: A few questions

But were they ordinary cases?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 22, 2013 11:17 pm  #13


Re: A few questions

I guess they might not have been ordinary cases, but it was a bit uncharacteristic of Sherlock to take on those cases. I mean, a stolen painting? Sherlock's always complaining that such and such case is boring, and a stolen painting is about as boring as you can get


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That's the thing about fanfiction, it's always a self-portrait
People want to believe what is easy, rather than what is right.
"One begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts"
 

January 23, 2013 3:24 am  #14


Re: A few questions

sherlockian111 wrote:

I guess they might not have been ordinary cases, but it was a bit uncharacteristic of Sherlock to take on those cases. I mean, a stolen painting? Sherlock's always complaining that such and such case is boring, and a stolen painting is about as boring as you can get

 
Ha, yes....  Which perfectly put him intentionally right in the media spotlight with those boring-but-famous cases, where Moriarty would be sure to see him.  Who knows how ordinary they were... it started the game again, and I agree with above... Moriarty liked to watch him dance.  Who knows what tipped him over, but others probably right - the realization that Sherlock might possibly beat him at the game due to a willingness to take unordinary measures, and needing to bring him down with him.


_________________________________________________________________________

We solve crimes, I blog about it, and he forgets his pants.  I wouldn't hold out too much hope!

Just this morning you were all tiny and small and made of clay!

I'm working my way up the greasy pole.  It's… very greasy.  And…  pole-shaped.
 

January 23, 2013 5:49 am  #15


Re: A few questions

I'm sort of surprised that Moriaty didn't suspect anything


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the thing about fanfiction, it's always a self-portrait
People want to believe what is easy, rather than what is right.
"One begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts"
 

January 23, 2013 7:11 am  #16


Re: A few questions

He was too arrogant and...mad.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 26, 2013 10:12 am  #17


Re: A few questions

1. Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss once asked themselves of what kind somebody could be who frightens us to death nowadays. Their conclusion was - a suicide bomber. Somebody who is so much obsessed with an idea that he is even willing to kill himself. Moriarty is obsessed with Sherlock, to burn him and to kill him. For this he even resists the methods of Mycroft´s interrogations. On the rooftop finally he seems to have solved the final problem: Because there is no recall code Sherlock is willing to jump into his own death to save his friends. But then Moriarty fluffs: He accidentally reveals that there is a possibility to recall everything.Sherlock realizes that, convinced to get the code out of him, to maybe deduce it. He is not Mycroft and not the King´s horses. He is not even an angel, just on the side of them. He can convince Moriarty that they are still alike and Moriarty, insane as he is, believes this: If one is able to get anything out of him then Sherlock (at the point when he realizes that, directly at the end of the sentence "I am not one of them", there is a kind of thunder and lightening camera and sound efffect, the moment of Moriarty´s literal enlightment, if you want so). To bring his plan to a successful end he must necessarily kill himself. If Sherlock actually had get the code out of him in the end is left open, but more important is, that he also was convinced about that. So he was absolutely able to be deeply persuasive to Moriarty.
2. In short: Moriarty likes to see Sherlock dance. This is why he pretends to give him the key. And because the key´s in Sherlock´s head the assassins try to save his life on the one hand, but on the other hand they try to prevent each other to talk to him, even to touch him. "Last one at Sherlock is a sissy", the last one will get the key and was careful enough before not to get assassinated.
3. Sherlock must give John a reason for committing suicide. He can´t obviously tell the truth. The world shall believe that Sherlock is a fraud, so that gives him time to clear up the things afterwards. If we follow the canon Moriarty´s death is just the beginning: There are many threads of the spider´s web which still function. In my view Sherlock and Mycroft planned since a longer time to destroy also the whole spider´s web, And for this Sherlock has to be dead. And has to fall from grace before to have convincingly done this by himself.They couldn´t let John in that plan, he is not able to lie. For this also the body of Moriarty had to disappear. The world should believe that the literal fall was"just" the commitment of a fraud, nothing else. So there is peace to clear up everything in the dark. It´s time for whitening Sherlock´s reputation after everything´s sorted out. And, yes, I hope this will be fact soon, can´t wait for this ;-)), In the original story three years have passed meanwhile - poor John.

Yes, they had to make Moriarty's body disappear, and they did and there's proof too! Remember when Mycroft is reading the newspaper, it says "Suicide of Fake Genius-Fraudulent Detective take his Life", it doesn't say anything about Moriarty's dead body! So clearly somebody made it disappear!I'm willing to bet it was Mycroft!

 

May 21, 2013 1:47 pm  #18


Re: A few questions

Where did Moriarty get the cape when he was sitting on the throne with the crown jewels?  It wasn't in the case that I could see.


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May 21, 2013 2:04 pm  #19


Re: A few questions

Good point BG!

I suppose it could have been folded into a sort of cushion which the crown itself was sat upon but it looks like too much cloth to me.

Another display case perhaps?

-m0r


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And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
 

August 6, 2013 1:03 pm  #20


Re: A few questions

i was thinking that the woman reporter is the real villian. Moriarty is actually a real actor and she has got to him throught relatives, like the jury.This would allow the writers to continue on with a real vilian, no "Moriarty" means no challange for holmes and also it would be, from a produciton point of view, a modern twist that would be a crowd pleaser. Also i think that he repells down when he jumps and the clue is when they are talking they both say "You repell me" to each other. I think this is what holmes laughs about before he jumps

 

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