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May 30, 2012 9:26 pm  #21


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

So I do identify with Sherlock, John and Moriarty? Hmmm ... interesting ... haven't thought of this before....
No, just kidding!
Yes, you're right, Davina. I always tell them that Sherlock isn't exactly a whodunnit thing but is going much deeper. Actually, most of the cases are "crap", for example a lot of the viewers will know that the cabbie in ASiP is the murderer, even faster than Sherlock. But that's not the point. It's about the developing relationship between Sherlock and John ... the "cases" are mostly means to an end.
And then comes something like Baskerville and there we have the very traditional crime-and-horror story that is being liked by so many TV viewers.
Yes, Reichenbach is a bit overwhelming, asking too much of the average consumer of crime stories.
But - it's fine. Anyone as they wish.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

May 30, 2012 9:31 pm  #22


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

Tobe, don't worry. I have a couple of friends that told me they loved The Blind Banker and that it was the best episode. They found Reichenbach messy. And they didn't care about how Sherlock survived the fall or any other of the misterys in this episode.
It's hard, but I still talk to them...


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

 

June 5, 2012 11:02 am  #23


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

I am also a bit disappointed regarding the reactions in Germany. However, I know that a many crime writers I know are absolutely enthusiastic about the show. And the problems with the dubbing are quite interesting as I am working as a literary translator. Of course the du/Sie thing happens quite often but I think in this case they should have gone for the informal address. And there was the dog/hound problem in Baskerville as well. On the other hand in German you have a double meaning for "Reichenbachfall" as "fall" means "fall" and "case" which comes in quite handy. Someone once called translators "lovers of the impossible", a term that appealed to me. And without a dubbing my thirteen-year old son would have been lost and know he is Sherlocked .


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 5, 2012 3:31 pm  #24


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

Recently I found some German Sherlock Holmes canon audio books in my parents' shelf. To my surprise, Holmes and Watson (as they address each other in the canon stories) use the the informal "du".
There you go!


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
     Thread Starter
 

June 5, 2012 6:40 pm  #25


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

That's interesting. When I read the German translations a long, long time ago they would always say Holmes, Watson and "Sie". I think "du" might work in "Sherlock" but it would be quite unfamiliar in the beginning because there is this tradition of using the more distant form of address.


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 6, 2012 9:57 am  #26


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

Aurora wrote:

It sounds like the German translators entirely missed the point of the very first conversation on the doorstep of 221B:

Sherlock: Hello.
John: Ah – Mr. Holmes.
Sherlock: Sherlock, please.

That's basically the English way of saying "let's not be formal".

In any case, would anyone, of any age, really be so formal with someone they live with?

Exactly, that was the moment they shoud have used "du". I can't stand the "Sie" it's irritating. Since I have the DVDs I'll never watch it in German. I find Sherlock German voice O.K. but the accentuation (hope that's the right word), it doesn't sound natural. Well, but they have to compete with B.C. voice, you don't stand a chance.


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!


 
 

August 6, 2012 11:58 am  #27


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

I missed this interesting thread when I first arrived, thanks for bringing back to the front page!
It is really an interesting point why the German translators decided to keep the "Sie" all the way through both series.

The original books use formal speech, as nothing else would have been appropriate in Victorian times for two grown men who are not related to each other. In those days, children even addressed their parents using "Sie".
But I guess we all agree that things have changes in the last 100 years, and nowadays we don't use "Sie" in the same way anymore. But I find something else even more intruiging:
- The combination of first names and "Sie" is very rare in German, it's mainly used for addressing sales/service personnel (as in "Frau Helga") but even in that area it is considered somewhat old fashioned and is slowly dying out (in my experience at least).
- As Aurora has mentioned, we know from the first scene between the two characters that Sherlock Holmes of the BBC series dislikes being addressed by his surname - so why would he allow John to address him with "Sie", let alone use it himself? It just doesn't make sense, and above all causes a completely unnecessary lack of believability.


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"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

August 6, 2012 1:45 pm  #28


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

tobe, know I understand why you wondered some days ago, that I recently (and not much, much earlier) had noticed the du/sie thing in our German dubbed version!
Just like our green froggy here I missed this thread so far.
And - as I mentioned to you - after watching two episodes of Sherlock on TV I found the DVD in the shop and we watched no German version anymore.
Now when they started again on TV I watched it again and was wondering what the hell was wrong with the translation - despite the voices which, as already mentioned, cannot really reach the original ones.
Took me some more time to notice it is the "sie" they use all the time, which is feeling so WRONG!


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

August 6, 2012 4:19 pm  #29


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

Yes, it simply doesn't fit in with their friendship. Today when many people in Germany prefer "du" to "Sie" in many contexts it seems a bit outdated for two good friends sharing a flat. I think it may have an influence on how the audience feels about John and Sherlock.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 6, 2012 4:44 pm  #30


Re: Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

I just re-read this thread. oh yes - I was quite irritated by the German Reichenbach back in May...
There are also corresponding threads for  "Skandal" and "Hunde" in their respective threads. Just in case you're interested.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
     Thread Starter
 

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