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March 11, 2013 5:39 pm  #61


Re: what happened was simple

Sparrow wrote:

Lupin wrote:

Also, no doctor worth his salt would move a patient who suffered a fall like that before examining that the back/neck hasn't been broken and it's safe to move the body. Even if he did jump, the abnormal behavior of the hospital staff would suggest a great case for a malpractice suit and seems a bit out of the ordinary, no?

They would if they concluded he was dead. 

I think this is a good point-- I've always thought those folks who come rushing out are just part of Sherlock's homeless network, dressed in medical costumes.

 

March 11, 2013 5:49 pm  #62


Re: what happened was simple

And I've always thought that those people never ever would belong to Sherlock's homeless network - too many confidants who are susceptible to making money out of their knowledge.I'd rather match them with Mycroft's secret service.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
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March 11, 2013 5:54 pm  #63


Re: what happened was simple

tobeornot221b wrote:

And I've always thought that those people never ever would belong to Sherlock's homeless network - too many confidants who are susceptible to making money out of their knowledge.I'd rather match them with Mycroft's secret service.

Whatever. My point is, I've always suspected they weren't real medical people. Real medical people never would have moved him without stabilizing his neck and back, and no one can declare someone dead except for an MD or (here in the States) the coroner or his assistant, which it didn't look like anyone was (except for John, who wasn't exactly thinking straight, to say the least.)

 

March 11, 2013 5:58 pm  #64


Re: what happened was simple

Agree.  That's no way to behave if they were a real medical team.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

March 14, 2013 9:12 pm  #65


Re: what happened was simple

They didn't look like homeless people... (But who knows?)


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March 30, 2013 6:34 pm  #66


Re: what happened was simple

"I'd rather match them with Mycroft's secret service."

At least one is wearing a Mycroft secret service ring. So-yeah, that's what they are, I reckon. Also gets Mycroft off the hook nicely.


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 30, 2013 10:23 pm  #67


Re: what happened was simple

tobeornot221b wrote:

And I've always thought that those people never ever would belong to Sherlock's homeless network - too many confidants who are susceptible to making money out of their knowledge.I'd rather match them with Mycroft's secret service.

I'm pretty sure Mycroft said something about the secret service spying on other people just for fun or something, and he said that he didn't trust his secret service, so yeah, don't know who those fake paramedics were. Anyway, you're all saying that Sherlock wouldn't take a risk like jumping and crossing his fingers that he would survive, but Sherlock took a risk simply by jumping. A fall like that, you can be dead before you hit the ground, I read somewhere, that when you go from 200km/hour or more, and then you suddenly stop, everything in your body weighs 7,500 times more than normal. So our 1.5kg brain would weigh about ten tons, and all the cells are burst open and blood vessels are torn, so yeah, it's not usually the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.
And also, if those paramedics were actually real, wouldn't they start CPR or something?


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That's the thing about fanfiction, it's always a self-portrait
People want to believe what is easy, rather than what is right.
"One begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts"
 

March 31, 2013 9:11 am  #68


Re: what happened was simple

there is at least one wearing one of the rings that Anthea and Mycroft wear. To me this suggests that the drama is being presided over by someone from the real inner circle. Secret Service might have been the wrong word, I think what those of us saying this mean is that its one of Mycrofts cronies. And he clearly has cronies-otherwise how could he have (nearly) pulled off the Bond flight and everything else? 

He woudln't be at 200km ph. If he didn't break his fall he'd be at around 40 mph which is around 70 kph. You could compare that to a car crashing into a wall at 40 mph really. Your chance of survival would be low and without serious long term issues, nearly non-existent. Also, for geeks, there is a limit on how fast you can fall anyway. The issue is that when you are travelling fast, the force with which you hit the ground is essentially massively magnified by your speed and mass. But that's not a massive thing at 40 mph. 

Also-I'm not sure that head injuries are the only issue. I think they may be what actually kills most people, yes, but you'd also be looking at serious internal bleeding not to mention, if you survived, paralysis.

Last edited by beekeeper (March 31, 2013 9:16 am)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 31, 2013 10:37 am  #69


Re: what happened was simple

We know that Sherlock is trained in martial arts. He has a certificate in his bedroom. Acording to canon that's how he survived in Meinringen. So I think we should expect that martial arts is involved. But it is impossible to just do some extraordinary well performed breakfall (free-fall in german) and survive. No-one ever does that. You can't practice something like that. Though stunt-people do it, but with inflated bags or in gym with mats. Even in TV-reality a 4 story free fall is a no-go.

You can see Sherlock's body positioned on the ground. It is almost exactly a  textbook landing position in martial arts. You have to be on either the right or left side to avoid contact with the spine. You will break your backbone hitting the ground when you land on your backside or on the front side. Sherlock's left hip is not in contact with the ground and his right arm is positioned next to him and extended. The left arm is positioned above the upper body.
I don't believe in coincidence here.
To do somthing like that you have to be very relaxed, cat-like. You would need a low muscle tonus which would also be useful to appear dead after the fall. On the other hand you need total body control to fall  frontwards to see the ground approaching and get the timing right to turn around to get the right angle when hitting the ground/net/bin/or whatever it might be if there is something else.
I think as far as this we are pretty save.

Would you mind some speculation and two new puzzle pieces (Sherlock's tears and shiver)?
1. Apparently we see Sherlock crying on the roof.
2. When Sherlock steps on the ledge we get about one second of his shoes and his trousers.  Just that. In this moment you can see his leg shivering. As if he is in fear.

I don't buy that. I prefer a different interpretation to connect with the theory above.
1. and 2. could be a physical reaction towards a muscle relexant. If you take a low dosage of a muscle relexant there can be side effects like uncontrollable muscle tremor and tears. 
The onset and duration of effect can be predicted.

Conveniently Sherlock has not long ago conducted research about the effect of a muscle relexant: Botulinum toxin.
  
Well. I did it now. My theory about the fall. Maybe there is more (net, bin on wheels). But I prefer a simple solution. This one tells you probably more about myself and how I conceive Sherlock as a scientist and a master in martial arts than about the fall solution itself.




 

 

March 31, 2013 10:37 am  #70


Re: what happened was simple

To beekeeper´s ring theory: That´s really interesting. If you are right with the rings - where again did you get the fact that these rings are a kind of "secret service"-rings?
I am asking because a while ago I had one theory about Sherlock being somehow a part of a "secret service", MI-whatever, maybe a freelancer in spying or so http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
. Because, there is one sentence in (I think) TGG from Mycroft to Sherlock: "Or shall I order you?" Why order? Why does he think he can order him? Is it just an older-brother-habit or is there more behind? I mean, Mycroft has definitely a lot to do with the secret services of our world (CIA, some German stuff e.g.) - "he is the British government". His little brother is not made for regular work, and one can´t really order him, but maybe sometimes he was very helpful to Mycroft and his companions. Mycroft is extremely clever, too, he knows how to "motivate" his brother. The two brothers are two sides of a coin: Mycroft is the settled one, the one, who knows how to behave, how to make career etc. Sherlock is the "untamed wild one", but he can also, as we know, be very useful for police or secret services.
At least in ACD canon Holmes was also working once as a spy in First World War, so it´s maybe not totally absurd of thinking, Sherlock could have been a kind of freelancer in that business from time to time. And maybe Mycroft has something (morally?) in the hand against him to make him do this, to order him - the "childish" feud?
Moriarty himself has definitely to do with the terrorists of our world, according to Moffat/Gatiss he is the most dangerous of them, the suicide bomber. So Moriarty moves in a world of modern espionage stuff, ASiB is definitely a spy story.
So, if Sherlock is working together with Mycroft against the spider web since maybe at least THoB and in TRF (what I assume), if the whole talk between him and Moriarty on the rooftop was planned in advance to get recorded (with his mobile e.g., demonstratively thrown away before the jump - the possible parallel to a letter full of explanations and proofs against Moriarty and his web, which ACD Sherlock Holmes left to his brother, before he died in the canon Falls), then it also makes sense that he disappeared for some years to destroy a whole terrorist spider web. And maybe this time he was also ordered, whether he liked it or not. This could be one conflict between John and him in the future, when they meet again in series 3: If it´s not about saving the lives of his friends anymore, why does he place his work over the friendship for some reason. An order? Understanding in necessities?

Last edited by anjaH_alias (March 31, 2013 11:03 am)

 

March 31, 2013 10:39 am  #71


Re: what happened was simple

I'm hoping that's how it is.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

March 31, 2013 10:56 am  #72


Re: what happened was simple

I sometimes think that Mycroft is the one who explains everything to John later. Because he is the only one, who can do this without causing too much emotion. After a lot of misunderstandings and hurt feelings before, of course....
(Hm, and maybe he could also give John a hint that his moustache looks awful http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/nerdy.png
.)

Last edited by anjaH_alias (March 31, 2013 10:58 am)

 

March 31, 2013 11:32 am  #73


Re: what happened was simple

Love it!
 


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

March 31, 2013 8:42 pm  #74


Re: what happened was simple

beekeeper wrote:

"I'd rather match them with Mycroft's secret service."

At least one is wearing a Mycroft secret service ring. So-yeah, that's what they are, I reckon. Also gets Mycroft off the hook nicely.

Haven't noticed this.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/nerdy.png
Need to watch that scene again.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/worried.png


anjaH_alias wrote:

...... Because, there is one sentence in (I think) TGG from Mycroft to Sherlock: "Or shall I order you?" Why order? Why does he think he can order him? Is it just an older-brother-habit or is there more behind? ......

God, yes. Good question!

 


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151103/cun4b2f8.png

 
 

April 1, 2013 10:50 am  #75


Re: what happened was simple

the ring theory came from my brain. Mycroft and Anthea both wear them. They are not wedding rings. its deduction ;-). Oh and to be clear, I mean secret service loosely, as in the ring within the service. We might quibble that they are not that discreet since they are wearing obvious rings but hey.

Sherlock does not wear one, incidentally. It suggests to me that the fake doctors were a Mycroft set up and that is important because probably that level of security is needed. I'm very dubious that the homelessness network would be that secure, no matter how many £50s Sherlock had chucked at them. 

yk though I hope it doesn't go all James Bond. I like the idea of Sherlock as the loose canon younger brother-the "and you invaded Afghanistan" comment and the underpantless trip to Buckinham palace doesn't suggest to me a three year spy tour. I think Sherlock is a complete anarchist really, and I think a lot of his behaviour is a reaction to Mycrofts British propriety.

Be I find what you are saying really interesting actually, I've thought this too, but I also agree that 4 stories (70ft) is too far. Assuming he fell without anything slowing him he would have landed at 40mph whether or not he was relaxed-however relaxed you are, even if you are asleep, if your car crashes at that speed you have pretty much had it without an airbag. I think too far even with a muscle relaxant. In canon the martial arts were used to overcome Moriaty directly and then he found a ledge to climb up out of the chasm. Here I'm guessing that since the wrestling was psychological, the "ledge" might be too-figurative, perhaps-, or it might be an actual break in the fall.

Last edited by beekeeper (April 1, 2013 11:16 am)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

April 5, 2013 1:01 am  #76


Re: what happened was simple

Ivy wrote:

anjaH_alias wrote:

...... Because, there is one sentence in (I think) TGG from Mycroft to Sherlock: "Or shall I order you?" Why order? Why does he think he can order him? Is it just an older-brother-habit or is there more behind? ......

God, yes. Good question!

 

This is one answer: Sherlock is a Privateer. 

Here's an excerpt:

The day after Sherlock Holmes meets Doctor Watson, Mycroft brings Watson to a remote location, "avoiding the attention of Sherlock Holmes" and says "I worry about him ... constantly."  Then, he shows up at the scene after the cabbie is killed, expressing his concern and asking Sherlock,

"Did it never occur to you that you and I belong on the same side?"

This can be interpreted as Mycroft telling Sherlock he should come over to the side Mycroft is on, that they should be comrades.  But it can also be taken to mean that they already are, and that is why Sherlock's continued "aggression" towards him is inappropriate.  Then Mycroft says something rather startling and mysterious:

"This petty feud between us is simply childish; people will suffer."

People will suffer.  Who?  Why?

In S1E3, "The Great Game," John finds Mycroft and Sherlock together in the flat, Sherlock as resentful and uncooperative as usual, refuses to look at a file Mycroft has brought on a case of missing missile defense plans. Mycroft tells Sherlock:

"You've got to find those plans, Sherlock. .... Don't make me order you."

And while Sherlock sneers "I'd like to see you try," and seems to be ignoring Mycroft entirely, we learn in the end he does solve the case and recover the memory stick with the plans on it and return it to Mycroft.  The question is: why would Mycroft think he could "order" Sherlock?

The theory at the link is Sherlock works as an independent contractor to the governement and Mycroft is his superior.

 

April 5, 2013 1:06 pm  #77


Re: what happened was simple

That was exactly what I was thinking. There is a kind of "spy"-background, of course not like in a "James Bond"-manner, but as in ASiB already shown.
But everything could also be quite different, this is one possibility for me.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (April 5, 2013 1:15 pm)

 

May 25, 2013 1:49 pm  #78


Re: what happened was simple

Be wrote:

We know that Sherlock is trained in martial arts. He has a certificate in his bedroom. Acording to canon that's how he survived in Meinringen. So I think we should expect that martial arts is involved. But it is impossible to just do some extraordinary well performed breakfall (free-fall in german) and survive. No-one ever does that. You can't practice something like that. Though stunt-people do it, but with inflated bags or in gym with mats. Even in TV-reality a 4 story free fall is a no-go.

You can see Sherlock's body positioned on the ground. It is almost exactly a  textbook landing position in martial arts. You have to be on either the right or left side to avoid contact with the spine. You will break your backbone hitting the ground when you land on your backside or on the front side. Sherlock's left hip is not in contact with the ground and his right arm is positioned next to him and extended. The left arm is positioned above the upper body.
I don't believe in coincidence here.
To do somthing like that you have to be very relaxed, cat-like. You would need a low muscle tonus which would also be useful to appear dead after the fall. On the other hand you need total body control to fall  frontwards to see the ground approaching and get the timing right to turn around to get the right angle when hitting the ground/net/bin/or whatever it might be if there is something else.
I think as far as this we are pretty save.

Would you mind some speculation and two new puzzle pieces (Sherlock's tears and shiver)?
1. Apparently we see Sherlock crying on the roof.
2. When Sherlock steps on the ledge we get about one second of his shoes and his trousers.  Just that. In this moment you can see his leg shivering. As if he is in fear.

I don't buy that. I prefer a different interpretation to connect with the theory above.
1. and 2. could be a physical reaction towards a muscle relaxant. If you take a low dosage of a muscle relexant there can be side effects like uncontrollable muscle tremor and tears. 
The onset and duration of effect can be predicted.

Conveniently Sherlock has not long ago conducted research about the effect of a muscle relaxant: Botulinum toxin.
  
Well. I did it now. My theory about the fall. Maybe there is more (net, bin on wheels). But I prefer a simple solution. This one tells you probably more about myself and how I conceive Sherlock as a scientist and a master in martial arts than about the fall solution itself.




 

 
I still stick to this theory and I would like to add something that has to do with the preparations for the fall.
If Sherlock used a muscle relaxant it might have been applied on patches like his nicotin patches. Nicotin overdose even? Or just botulinum toxin? Who knows?
 
Another device used to prepare before the fall: Sherlock who never eats when he works suddenly decides to eat or better to buy two bags with crisps. Then Molly asks later whether Sherlock wants some crisps. Conclusion the crisps are gone. Did he already eat them? Probably not because it would be too early. He was even ready to get a third bag of crisps when Molly asked whether he wants some. So potentially three bags of crisps for Sherlock alone? Out of character.

Nicotin or botulinum toxin or even cocaine working as muscle relaxant plus
eating out of character because eating slows him down.
Conclusion: He wants to slow down because he needs to slow down (not his intellect of course) but the organism, his metabolism. Definitely not a good idea to use a drug having an empty stomach.

He didn’t want to suddenly lose consciousness before he was sure that everything was ready to fall. He needs to feel when he is on the edge and ready to lose consciousness and fall just in this exact moment. Sherlock repeatedly told everybody that digesting slows him down. Must be avoided when thinking. But in this special situation the carbonhydrates are useful to prevent the drug to abruptly knock him out. With his drug history and experience that would not be something new to him.
The writers did give us a hint in this direction in The Casebook: Anderson's analysis about one of the corpses in ASiP. This person ate before he died and the connection between metabolism, poison and carbonhydrates is mentioned.


He might have used the American guy who tortured Mrs Hudson in Scandal as a specimen to experiment on. Because you can’t practice something like that. It has to work when tried and be done with it.
Damaged nose and mouth plus patch/tape above his mouth with a drug applied on it and through him down from the first or second floor right on her bins. Looks like The Silver Blaze for me.

I don't know if it is right, but the pieces just fit too nicely to be wrong. But when you look at things too long you might imagine a Hound. That's the problem with this kind of shows. It's like reading a horoscope. It is done for you to imagine and invent.

 

 

 

July 15, 2013 9:50 pm  #79


Re: what happened was simple

Harriet wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

I'm sure that all the people in the space between the parking garage and the hospital are in the plan ...

This would mean a lot of people in the plan already. Could be dangerous...

Agreed...but given the Boyz' love for ACD canon, it's worth pointing out that in the original "Scandal in Bohemia" Holmes hires a whole mess of people to be on the street in front of Adler's house and mug him so Irene Adler has to bring him inside. So there's precedent.

(Of course, if they'd done that in our  Scandal episode, we would have missed my all time favorite line in the series...)


"I always hear 'punch me in the face' when you're speaking, but usually it's subtext."
 

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