BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Der Reichenbachfall, German TV, May 28th, 2012, 9:45 CEST

tobeornot221b · May 28, 2012 9:36 am

Will the German telly audience finally wake up tonight, at least for the final problem?
Figures of S2/E1 and 2 was a shameful thing as yet…

My thoughts prior to the German version:

How on earth will they do the "IOU"?
Germans can't get anything out of these letters. That means they have to be translated.
The question is: How? (because there's a double meaning of "owe" which is contrary – as well as in English): "Ich schulde dir/Ich verdanke dir" – oh no - worse in this case: "Ich schulde Ihnen/ ich verdanke Ihnen")

The … you know … Sie/du thing … rooftop … note … grave site … (please, NO "Seien Sie nicht tot…!" which would be sort of "Would you be kind enough, sir, considering not being dead?")
Holding out not too much hope for a switch … could be dangerous for the German correctness – our country would fall which as we all know is a permanent destination … so?
I expect the scene with Sherlock and Molly in the lab to be like:
"What do you need?" – "You." = "Was brauchen Sie?" – "Sie!"

Oh no – I won't worry about this any longer – everything will be fine tonight...

Irene Adler · May 28, 2012 9:54 am

tobeornot221b wrote:
The … you know … Sie/du thing … rooftop … note … grave site … (please, NO "Seien Sie nicht tot…!" which would be sort of "Would you be kind enough, sir, considering not being dead?")

Oh, my God, tobe... this has killed me

Davina · May 28, 2012 10:11 am

'It'll be alright on the night'. As they say. Except, maybe, it won't.

tobeornot221b · May 28, 2012 7:35 pm

10 minutes to go.
Well – bracing myself right now for the German Fall.
At least I hope that I won't have to bite into my knees for the whole 90 minutes…

m0r1arty · May 28, 2012 7:42 pm

Fingers crossed they stop being so formal with each other!

-m0r

tobeornot221b · May 28, 2012 9:18 pm

Your crossed fingers, mOr, were as helpful as my crossed extremities at yesterday's BAFTAS:
THEY. SCREWED. IT.UP! (going by the state of my knees).
Of course Sherlock and John didn't drop the "Sie" - can you imagine the note part and John's soliloqui??
I am angry.
I have to calm down a bit until I can write more, sorry.

Davina · May 28, 2012 9:29 pm

I would write a letter, or e.mail to complain. Tell them you will help them translate the next series before they dub it! Clearly they are wasting whatever money they are paying out for translation if they end up with this result!

Davina · May 28, 2012 9:38 pm

Ok. It might not do any good but I have just tweeted both Steven and Mark about the problem with the German translation. They might want to know anyway.

Davina · May 28, 2012 9:42 pm

I have also sent a tweet to Sue Vertue. Maybe one of these will help for the next series. It is in their interest to have decent translations and dubbing.

tobeornot221b · May 28, 2012 9:54 pm

Thanks, Davina...
I think many Germans liked it the way it is, but of course they don't know what they are missing.
"Seien Sie bitte nicht tot!" German Martin definitely doesn't deserve a BAFTA. His voice...not exactly a machine but not as poignant and heart breaking as his British collegue.

Davina · May 28, 2012 10:05 pm

They won't know any better but one of the main premises of the series is that Sherlock is undergoing a process of 'humanisation' through John's influence. By keeping the formal 'Sie' this will prevent any German speakers who cannot understand, or have access to, the original English version from getting the right 'feel' for the relationship and its development. This, in turn, will have an adverse effect upon the connection the audience will have to the series itself, in essence their connection with the characters of John and Sherlock. In English, generally, we do not have the familiar 'thee' and 'thou' etc. in use any more, except in religious texts, prayers and in some regional dialects, so its importance in German would be lost on most English speakers.

The art, and it is an art, of good translation is not just in translating the words spoken or written but I conveying the sense, atmosphere and feeling of the original.

tobeornot221b · May 28, 2012 10:16 pm

Very well said, Davina. Yes, it's about the changes and the developments that can happen when someone like Sherlock meets his right match with John and vice versa. The growing familiarity can be seen in their cooperation. Why not in their addressing as well?

Sammy · May 28, 2012 10:40 pm

Hmm... I guess it was quite alright, but it missed something.
Well, the voice actors can in no way be so good as the Sherlock cast themselves, so...

And "Sie". Yeah. I'm not even gonna get upset about that now. Just can't anymore.

Especially the last 20 minutes or so didn't feel quite as emotional. That's stupid because now all people I told about how heartbreaking it Reichenbach was will be like "weeell, actually..."
haha, or maybe not. I'm not sure.

One positive thing: "I was so alone and I owe you so much". I just loved the way the voice actor said it. In the original I always found that it sounded kinda hasty and... weird. But on a second look you realize it's because John just doesn't really know what to say, how to express his emotions, and is struggeling with this "saying goodbye", because he doesn't want to and because it's hard to admit this stuff even though no one's listening and that's really the only reason he actually was able to say it... erm, yeah.
So there it was more subtle.
But then again, I liked it in the German dubbing because sometimes I'm all for the drama

tobeornot221b · May 29, 2012 6:59 am

Sammy wrote:
One positive thing: "I was so alone and I owe you so much". I just loved the way the voice actor said it.

Martin delivers the "I was so alone and I owe you so much…" sentence as emotionless as possible in order to keep himself under control.
The German voice at this point is even more tearful and less controlled.
Martin heightens his performance when delivering the words "Don't be … dead". The German voice ("Seien Sie bitte nicht tot!") fails to do so. But I can't blame the dubber – he does as best as he can I presume.
The whole thing doesn't feel right because

(repeating the tired refrain, sorry, I know!)

imagine the whole scene in formal addressing.

One has to ask oneself: When is the point to drop formalities? If not now – at the gravesite - when then?
What goes on in the funny brains of our TV people? Maybe they have the image of the British to be polite beyond death! Maybe they consider this as kind of British "eccentricity" which has to be maintained at all costs? I've been reading through German commentaries about this. If some Germans complain about the "Sie" other Germans argue for the "Sie" because "it is in the originals". Of course they read only the German translation of the canon. For them the formal address is absolute ok. That "Sherlock" is a contemporary adaptation where things might be different to the Victorians doesn't count, obviously.

Ok. I' can't do anything about it but whole-heartedly recommend the original DVDs – which I will!

Figures aren't in yet. Will post them later,

tobeornot221b · May 29, 2012 7:07 am

viewers: 2,95 Mill. = 11,8 %
slightly better then...

Aurora · May 29, 2012 7:54 am

It sounds like the German translators entirely missed the point of the very first conversation on the doorstep of 221B:

Sherlock: Hello.
John: Ah – Mr. Holmes.
Sherlock: Sherlock, please.

That's basically the English way of saying "let's not be formal".

In any case, would anyone, of any age, really be so formal with someone they live with?

Davina · May 29, 2012 11:04 am

Not a great share of the total available audience though.

Sammy · May 30, 2012 8:32 pm

Oh, Sherlock is doing quite well on German iTunes!
The German versions of the episodes of season 2 are on number 1,2 and 3. (German A Study in Pink 7, English Reichenbach 13, English Hounds 19, German Great Game 20, German Blind Banker 22 and the other ones come a bit later)
Just wanted to inform you ;)

And I agree, the line I mentioned I think was quite good, but the part after that was a bit screwed up... like okay, but not nearly as good as Martin in the original.

Yeah, and I really think that they think the British are that polite.

tobeornot221b · May 30, 2012 8:39 pm

Today, I asked my work mates whether they had been watching Baskerville and Reichenbach on TV. Some of them had, indeed. But all of them liked Hounds best and considered Reichenbach to be boring...
Boring!
I have to think really hard now whether to return to my office tomorrow...!

Davina · May 30, 2012 8:58 pm

That's because Hounds works whether or not you have connected to the characters of Sherlock and John, it's a good old-fashioned jump out your skin horror-type movie. Reichenbach works when you have made a connection with Sherlock, John and to a certain extent Moriarty. You have to identify with the main protagonists for it to work. You have to really care about the characters.