sherlockian111 wrote:

I've more or less accepted that I'm not going to get it right, and in all honesty, I doubt many of us will either, but if someone does, then I will definitely give them a pat on the back

I agree.
While I haven't seen a theory that I 100% agree with I haven't come up with one of my own. I'm sure we'll all sit down to watch the episode and say 'oh yeah, that's obvious... now!'

Michele wrote:

I think we may just have to come to the old adage of 'let's agree to disagree'.

I think so, too, but when you think about it, really there is nothing to agree or disagree about, since none of us knows anything. I watch the show for fun, so I could never watch one scene 100 times and try to pick it apart-- to me, my opinion only, that's not fun. The waiting is hard, but...  well... what's another 4-10 months (depending on where we live) between friends?

ancientsgate wrote:

Are spoilers a danger on this thread? Because if they are, I'll have to unsubscribe from the thread.

I think it's a risk that someone without thinking will post a spoiler. I'm fairly sure a few pages back I saw someone telling another person not to post that here because it was a spoiler. Thankfully though I didn't read the original post. I guess you run the risk on the entire forum but as long as everyone is considerate of the fact that some people don't want to know it should be ok. I only go into a few topics to try and avoid seeing a spoiler but still allowing for some Sherlocky goodness.

ancientsgate wrote:

I think so, too, but when you think about it, really there is nothing to agree or disagree about, since none of us knows anything.

I agree. There is no definate answer at the moment but I guess like lots of things people just debate their opinions. I like hearing other peoples ideas about it but I'm almost more excited to see the reunion between John and Sherlock. Another few months feels long but I guess when you think about how long we've waited already it's nothing.

sj4iy wrote:

MysteriaSleuthbedder wrote:

And also John does see him jump.

We don't know what John sees.  We do not see John and the fall in the same frame.  We see John looking up, and then we see Sherlock fall from behind.

We see John, then it pans up to the roof where we see Sherlock.

I love that pan.  It's so convincing.  It seems unbroken and I broke it down into a whole series of overlapping pictures.

The camera pans to Sherlock on a roof with a phone in his ear, he has been talking to John.  The camera does not pan to the figure John is looking at.  It stops short of a full arc.  As I said, Sherlock is on the roof,  to the right of what John is looking at. John never takes his eyes off of Sherlock from that point on. Sherlock is the one falling.  

Puppets, dead bodies, Moriarty in disguise...why do any of that when the simple fact is that Sherlock can survive the fall with help from people on the ground

Well, I'm sure up for suggestions of what that could be.  One of my theories is an old-fashioned fireman's stretched canvas "net."  Except, we see the body hit the ground.  The sidewalk, that is. With no time to be falling into anything and bouncing or leaping off.

Here's the thing.  Camera angles are set up on purpose.  There's not a reason in the world not to show Sherlock and John in the same frame when he falls. II also believe that nothing Moffat tells us will actually make sense in terms of what's on screen.  No reason to shoot three seperate versions of the fall  But they didn't show the first and did do the second.  

Last edited by MysteriaSleuthbedder (July 5, 2013 7:39 am)

sherlockian111 wrote:

I think we may just have to come to the old adage of 'let's agree to disagree'.
I'm living in constant fear of having it spoilt for me ...

You may very well be right but I guess it's an arguement that can only be settled by watching the episode.

This is true. I never was going to post the theory, I think how he survives the fall is the least interesting question in the series. But then I suddenly realized what probably happened and, being a writer, I wrote it. Kind of a compulsion.

I write puzzles, and solve them, so for me, taking the whole thing apart and putting it back together is my version of fun, as is discussing it. I have the fall broken into one-fifth of a second apart screenshots. I got carpal index finger doing that.

Alright, I would say something else but I'm just going to agree to disagree, as otherwise we're going to go on and on. It will most likely turn out that neither of us are right, but if you are right, I'll give you a pat on the back

Here's the thing.  Camera angles are set up on purpose.  There's not a reason in the world not to show Sherlock and John in the same frame when he falls. II also believe that nothing Moffat tells us will actually make sense in terms of what's on screen.  No reason to shoot three seperate versions of the fall  But they didn't show the first and did do the second.  

I have to agree and disagree with this comment. Camera angles are set up on purpose and, in this case, it's to throw us off the correct path to the truth. They had to shoot the fall from different angles to prevent us from seeing the fall too clearly and working it out.

This is pure speculation as I haven't seen any spoilers of the fall but I presume they're out there. If they filmed 3 different scenarios of the fall this could be another ploy to put us off the scent. A few years ago there was a big discussion on 'Who shot Phil Mitchell' who is a character in a soap in the UK. To keep everyone guessing, and to keep the truth out of the media because we usually know what's going to happen prior to the episode airing, 4 different scenarios were filmed. I can see something like this being done by Moftiss and I hope they have done it.

If there is footage out there which makes people come to the wrong conclusions then it is Moftiss who should get the pat on their backs. I'd love it if after us finding out what really happened they tell us we would've stood a better chance of working it out if we had never seen spoilers.

I guess I just see Moftiss as very devious and they are watching the whole fandom dance x

besleybean wrote:

I like to think of Mark and Steven as very clever and knowing how to write the best TV!

Quite right. I am in awe of their amazing talent at creating this show. A great big thumbs up from me to them x
 

nicbooful wrote:

Here's the thing.  Camera angles are set up on purpose.  There's not a reason in the world not to show Sherlock and John in the same frame when he falls. II also believe that nothing Moffat tells us will actually make sense in terms of what's on screen.  No reason to shoot three seperate versions of the fall  But they didn't show the first and did do the second.

 

I have to agree and disagree with this comment. Camera angles are set up on purpose and, in this case, it's to throw us off the correct path to the truth. They had to shoot the fall from different angles to prevent us from seeing the fall too clearly and working it out.

This is pure speculation as I haven't seen any spoilers of the fall but I presume they're out there. If they filmed 3 different scenarios of the fall this could be another ploy to put us off the scent.

I don't do setlock.  There's nothing I've said and no picture I'm going topost that doesn't come frm Series 2:Episode 3, The Reichenbach Fall.  .  I'm not saying they filmed just from different angles.  I'm saying there are seperate sequences intercut to make it look like a single continuous fall of a single person.  But when you look at the pictures, it can't be. (I'm doing the captions in caps because I think it's easier to read between the pics.)


ABOVE IS THE LAST ROOF SHOT WE SEE IN THE EPISODE,

BELOW IS THE VERY NEXT SHOT


WHERE'D ALL THAT STUFF ON THE ROOF COME FROM?  WE SAW A FULL SHOT OF THE ROOF WHEN SHERLOCK FIRST ENTERED.  THERE'S NOTHING THERE.

BELOW IS LESS THAN A SECOND LATER:



IF YOU LOOK AT THIS PIC AND THE ONE ABOVE, YOU'LL SEE SHERLOCK IS FALLING IN FRONT OF THE WORD "DEPARTMENT." 

HERE IS WHAT JOHN SEES:



WHEN WE SEE SHERLOCK FALL, HE JUST FALLS OVER. IF THAT IS SHERLOCK, WHY IS HE NOT FALLING IN FRONT OF THE "LO" IN PATHOLOGICAL?  BTW, THAT LEGEND IS CARVED ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.

BELOW IS ANOTHER ANGLE:



THIS ISN'T POSSIBLE IF SHERLOCK FELL THE WAY WE SAW HIM FALL, JUST FALLING FORWARD.  THIS SHERLOCK IS MUCH TOO FAR FROM THE BUILDING.

HERE IS WHERE THIS BODY FELL FROM:



IT'S THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING  RIGHT UNDER PATHOLOG - THE FIRST SET OF WINDOWS.

Now, when I first saw this, I assumed Sherlock jumped off the back or side of the building into the protected courtyard.  And that works perfectly, He could have been watching John reflected in a mirror someone was holding out, which is why John had to be A- in a certain position and B-knocked down so Sherlock could pass in front of him to get to the sidewalk.  The ringing phone would have been Sherlock's signal to dash for it.  BUT

That pan from John on the ground to Sherlock on the roof puts Sherlock somewhere to the right from John's POV.   However, that shot happens when John is getting out of the cab, he hasn't looked up, yet.  So, while the camera is on John, Sherlock could duck down, move to the back of the roof while assistants put the fake in position. This is actually my preferred theory, but it has Sherlock looking in the wrong direction, unless the mirror is to his right. 

In any case, both involve John not seeing the real Sherlock, while the real Sherlock does see John.

The mirror thing is a bit hokey, but it kind of fits with the magic trick comment.  It's an old saying, "They do it with mirrors."


 

MysteriaSleuthbedder wrote:

sj4iy wrote:

My theory is that Sherlock gets Moriarty to kill himself,

Wait.  I have to stop and say how much I LOVE that you said it this way.  Yes, Sherlock gets Moriarty to kill himself. Now, on to what we disagree about....

and then on the ground (while he's talking to John), people in the know are setting up the scene...putting a fake Sherlock on the ground and setting up a big airbag.  When Sherlock falls, he lands on the airbag (like stunt men use), gets off and everyone (carrying the airbag)

The only problem with this is that those airbags are huge, while you might hide it from John, you necessarily put it in view of Moriarty's henchmen. You cannot possibly deflate it in time to stick it inside that building.

 

And the reason for not shooting John seeing Sherlock fall is because of the actual logistics of creating that shot.  BC has to be in a harness, and there would be safety equipment galore, not to mention just your regular production crew. .

Are we thinking for some reason greenscreen is not practical in terms of filming Sherlock?  In any case, it's a sound point.

I'm not ignoring the ball in the armpit theory, I've just heard it before and I don't buy it. OTOH, you can't actually cause anyone's muscles to seize up by putting Botulinum virus in ther eczema cream, so maybe Moffat will want to make it so.

But John isn't looking at Sherlock and you can't use extraneous info from outside the show to explain away discrepancies.  Sherlock jumps from another roof, indeed, and Moffat makes sure we can see that.

Those airbags inflate and deflate really quickly depending on the model (some large models only take just over a minute to inflate- yes, I looked it up).  But here's the thing...who's watching Sherlock, really?  Moriarty says "his people", but John's assassin is watching John...and again, we don't really know who these people are and who they are working for, so we're only making assumptions about what they are doing there.  The assassin watching John is also supposedly one of the assassins that thinks that Sherlock has the keycode...but he's the only assassin that overlaps.  And while we are told that there are 4 assassins living around Sherlock by Mycroft, we only see three of them- but there are five wireless networks watching Sherlock.  The girl is nowhere to be found the entire episode, and then we get the policeman and the repair guy.  The whole assassin thing is not what it appears to be.  And why does Sherlock say all of that stuff to John, but then *gives him a clue*?  It means that someone is listening...but who?  So, as far as that goes, it's all a big mystery and all I know is that Sherlock had figured it out, and was confident that no one would be watching what happened below on the sidewalk, at least until John got there.

As far as the ball in the armpit theory goes...Moffat himself LOVES magic.  He's even said so.  Sherlock says to John "It's a trick, just a magic trick" (paraphrased)...well, the ball-under-the-armpit is a trick magicians use to trick people into thinking their heart has stopped.  And why else would Sherlock pocket the ball on his way to meet Moriarty (which you can see in slow motion on blu-ray like I have)?  He takes it with him for a reason...and that reason would be to trick John long enough for John to think that he's really dead.