BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Star Trek (spoilers

Sherli Bakerst · May 23, 2013 12:32 am

MysteriaSleuthbedder: That's hysterical/fantastic/adorable! Where on earth--or elsewhere--did it come from?

I've been thinking more about the reboot being an alternative timeline for Star Trek: Kind of like the Mirror Universe. Given that, I think I can accept all the changes JJ Abrams made, however outrageous they seemed at first.

crazybbcamerican · May 23, 2013 1:14 am

Actually, I was watching it and thinking that I could use these last two "reboots" to explain to people what fanfiction is...

And Into Dorkness? lol, that's a riot!

crazybbcamerican · May 24, 2013 1:37 pm

OMG. You guys, I have a customer coming in tomorrow whose name is Khan..................

tobeornot221b · May 24, 2013 1:50 pm

crazybbcamerican wrote:
OMG. You guys, I have a customer coming in tomorrow whose name is Khan..................

Then you should enjoy your final moments of peace today!

Last edited by tobeornot221b (May 24, 2013 1:50 pm)

Schmiezi · May 24, 2013 2:27 pm

crazybbcamerican wrote:
OMG. You guys, I have a customer coming in tomorrow whose name is Khan..................

Try saying "Shall we beginn?" without being too obvious!

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 24, 2013 4:35 pm

Sherli Bakerst wrote:
MysteriaSleuthbedder: That's hysterical/fantastic/adorable! Where on earth--or elsewhere--did it come from?

Right off tumblr from an interview he did on set.

crazybbcamerican · May 24, 2013 5:41 pm

It's so nice to hear that someone is having a good time in their work....as well as completely accepting of which side their bread is buttered on :D I get tired of the interviews where all everyone does is bash each other. Very nice, thank you!

Mary Me · May 24, 2013 6:54 pm

During the movie

#1 That moment when you're paying more attention to the liver spot on Benedict's neck than to Kirk, who is furiously calling him a criminal.
#2 That moment when you have the sudden desire to skin the girl behind you, though you don't even know her, because she is chatting to her neighbour during a Benedict scene and therefore ruining it.
#3 That moment when you can't help but giggle during the scene where Khan takes over the ship, points a gun at Kirk and ironically tells Spock how smart he is. (YOU ROCK)

miriel68 · May 26, 2013 1:34 pm

Saw it yesterday.

1. Benedict is outstanding. Only now I grasp fully the meaning of word "mesmerising".
2. Benedict is devastatingly handsome as John Harrison
3. Did I mention that he gives an outstanding performance? Ah yes, altitude sickness, you know

4. I enjoyed the movie. Did I? Yes, I definitely enjoyed the movie. It is true that I had to switch off my intelligence in order to gloss over gaping plot holes and some cringe worthy dialogue lines, but I have no problem with it: action movies are not famous for logical plot development.

Also, the movie has at least three good premises: the idea of tackling the issue of the "enemy within" and moral questions related to it, the idea of Kirk's journey from zero-to-hero (ok, it is kind of hyperbole) and the concept of the villain (s). Benedict did a phenomenal job, but he still needed decent material to work with and he got it. So... kudos to Abrams.

This said, the movie has also some serious flaws. I can think about several, but one which is evident to me, is that Abrams was not really able to decide who is he addressing his movie to: Star Trek fans or new audiences. He tried to do both things, unfortunately missing the mark. Many of the movie twists/ issues rely heavily on knowing ST lore and are not so much incomprehensible as not effective if this knowledge is lacking. For example, we need to have a background about Kirk - Spock friendship and Vulcan's mentality, to feel a dramatic tension of the initial prime directive dilemma in the opening sequence (well, be honest, even with this knowledge the tension is not really there). As a result, the appeal of the film for the newcomers depends mostly on the charm and originality of Benedict's villain: it is not surprising that the trailers focused on him almost to te point to create false expectations about his part in the whole movie.
Also, from this point of view making Benedict into Khan doesn't really work, because for a non Trek fan it adds nothing to his performance and character.
On the other hand, Abrams eagerness to please ST fans and his clever (or not so clever) idea to reboot canonical villain was met with rage by many hard core trekkies and resulted in many nods to Original Series, which are neither motivated nor interesting: the character of Carol Marcus is completely meaningless, and old Spock's cameo positively annoying. All these nods are empty fillings in the movie's plot and steal precious screen time which can have been used for a better exposition of nodal themes of STiD, IMO.

So, as I said, the film is entertaining and thought-provoking, which is more than can be said about most blockbusters. Plus, BC is a joy to watch. But I have also a feeling of a wasted opportunity: coming from such a strong starting point, it could have been much more brilliant movie.

The Doctor · May 27, 2013 11:38 am

Schmiezi wrote:
crazybbcamerican wrote:
OMG. You guys, I have a customer coming in tomorrow whose name is Khan..................
Try saying "Shall we beginn?" without being too obvious!

I just fell off my chair laughing. That doesn't happen too often so thanks for reminding me that growing-up is optional!

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 27, 2013 7:13 pm

The Doctor wrote:
I just fell off my chair laughing. That doesn't happen too often so thanks for reminding me that growing-up is optional!

It's more an illusion.

crazybbcamerican · May 28, 2013 12:40 am

Ok, ok. Simmer down, lol! Apparently our customer is on his way home to Ontario, Canada. I couldn't help but smile the whole time he was here, but I didn't want to be too weird, so I didn't say anything. He was a lot of fun, though, great sense of humour. Not Ben, though!

Sherli Bakerst · May 29, 2013 12:13 am

Here is an interview, in two parts, with the writers of ST:ID. Part 1 has a pic of Benedict and some info about writing Khan.

http://www.startrek.com/article/exclusive-orci-opens-up-about-star-trek-into-darkness-part-1

http://www.startrek.com/article/exclusive-orci-opens-up-about-star-trek-into-darkness-part-2

SilverMoonDragonB · May 29, 2013 12:28 am

I just came back from seeing Star Trek Into Darkness for the first time...WOW! I loved it , Benedict was...was...I don't think I've ever loved a villain this much , though I may be a bit biased , even if I weren't I highly doubt I would've loved his performance any less. He was an incredible Khan, more sympathetic than the original I think. When he appeared on screen for the first time and I heard his voice...I shivered and just about melted into the seat!...scratch that, I did a squeal, said right aloud "Sherlock!" and then I melted into the seat ...God, I can't believe how much I love his voice! In ALL the scenes with him I had to control myself from "squeeing" too much...it was very distracting, I know he was supposed to be the villain (and quite frankly I think the head Starfleet guy was worse, I would get into why I think that but this post is dedicated to...well, you know who ) but I found it very hard to dislike him (so damn gorgeous), especially when he was talking, so...mesmerizing , as others have said. All in all, great acting job on his part, and all the others as well, I cried in multiple places throughout the movie.

SilverMoonDragonB · May 29, 2013 12:30 am

Oh, and another point...they just had to get him to wear ANOTHER long sexy coat didn't they???? ...I bet they did that just for us

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 29, 2013 6:01 am

SilverMoonDragonB wrote:
Oh, and another point...they just had to get him to wear ANOTHER long sexy coat didn't they???? ...I bet they did that just for us

All his clothes were fantastic - all of him was fantasrtic. In that first shot, he looks like Saint Michael the Archangel. Yes, Admiral Marcus was the real villain, IMO.

Khan was actually a victim. And so seriously, you don't want to irritate Khan.

They should have let him sleep.

Last edited by MysteriaSleuthbedder (May 29, 2013 6:02 am)

crazybbcamerican · May 29, 2013 12:44 pm

SilverMoonDragonB wrote:
Oh, and another point...they just had to get him to wear ANOTHER long sexy coat didn't they???? ...I bet they did that just for us

Yep. I caught that, too! The camera didn't stay on it long enough though, as he turns and heads awy from our view :D

SilverMoonDragonB · May 29, 2013 2:42 pm

MysteriaSleuthbedder wrote:
SilverMoonDragonB wrote:
Oh, and another point...they just had to get him to wear ANOTHER long sexy coat didn't they???? ...I bet they did that just for us
All his clothes were fantastic - all of him was fantasrtic. In that first shot, he looks like Saint Michael the Archangel. Yes, Admiral Marcus was the real villain, IMO.

Khan was actually a victim. And so seriously, you don't want to irritate Khan.

They should have let him sleep.

I know right? Seriously, it shows a complete lack of humanity and compassion, among other things, on the Admirals part to do what he did. Not to mention the way he treated Khan upon waking him, using his crew like that to force him to work for them? Using his capabilities to his own advantage as if Khan was just a tool? Jeez, that was evil at best, whatever Khan may have been like before or what he did as a result of what was done to him initially and the people he killed, his crew was truly important to him, it proved whatever cruel things he did after being woken that he wasn't without a heart...that scene with him, when he was crying in the cell...I cried . I felt such compassion for him, inspite of everything....I felt no compassion for Admiral Marcus. When you treat someone they way he treated Khan...I am not at all surprised Khan did what he did.

Oh, and as for the coat...*thud* They really should've had him wear it more! Though I think if he did wear it more...I may have passed out *sigh*

Mary Me · May 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Yeah, that coat was a strike of genius. And I still can't get over his first appearance on screen. And have you seen his name in the end credits?

MysteriaSleuthbedder · May 29, 2013 5:28 pm

SilverMoonDragonB wrote:
I know right? Seriously, it shows a complete lack of humanity and compassion, among other things, on the Admirals part to do what he did. Not to mention the way he treated Khan upon waking him, using his crew like that to force him to work for them? Using his capabilities to his own advantage as if Khan was just a tool? Jeez, that was evil at best, whatever Khan may have been like before or what he did as a result of what was done to him initially and the people he killed, his crew was truly important to him, it proved whatever cruel things he did after being woken that he wasn't without a heart...that scene with him, when he was crying in the cell...I cried . I felt such compassion for him, inspite of everything....I felt no compassion for Admiral Marcus. When you treat someone they way he treated Khan...I am not at all surprised Khan did what he did.

Oh, and as for the coat...*thud* They really should've had him wear it more! Though I think if he did wear it more...I may have passed out *sigh*

Let's not forget his other coats, for instance:

I agree with everything you said about Khan. In the reboot, there is no past history between Kirk and Khan, and all we see is someone who was apparently created like Dr Frankenstein created his monster, never had any kind of normal life, always told what he had to be, he and all his people.

His targets are military, he destroyed the place he was imprisoned and enslaved, he is not a citizen of the Federation, he owes nothing to anyone, he just wanted to take his people away.

I hope they bring him back.