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April 30, 2012 11:54 pm  #1


Looking Sad

Does Sherlock really look sad when he thinks John can't see him? And if so...why???


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May 1, 2012 2:15 am  #2


Re: Looking Sad

Oh, man, I love the acting, writing and direction in that scene.

I think Molly is trying to say that Sherlock is putting on a "brave" face in front of John during this whole Moriarty situation to try to protect him, but Sherlock isn't bothering to maintain that facade when John isn't looking.

Some of the lead-up to that line involves Sherlock pensively mumbling, "IOU."  Molly asks him what he means right as John passes in front of them to move to the other work station, and Sherlock just stills and watches John very carefully, not responding until John is safely out of earshot.  Molly appears to notice this, which prompts the comparison to her father.  Her father was "not okay":  he was experiencing deep sadness at his impending death but didn't want to burden his family with his personal grief (a natural reaction not to want to burden loved ones).  Molly sees how Sherlock is acting one way in front of John and another way when John is absent and deduces that Sherlock is likewise "not okay."

I find it to be an interesting contrast with the 221B scene just prior to the pool scene in The Great Game.  There (at least how I interpret the scene), Sherlock waited until John left the flat so that he could (somewhat gleefully) engage in his game with Moriarty because he didn't want John in the way or judging him again about seeking out the thrills.  Now, it's not that he wants John out of the way to engage in games of which John would not approve.  He just really, really wants to protect his one friend from everything - not just the physical danger of another bomb-vest-type situation (after all, John is Sherlock's "pressure point" as Moriarty referred to it), but also the emotional burden of facing the truth that this may be a battle that Sherlock cannot win.

 

May 1, 2012 2:24 am  #3


Re: Looking Sad

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Does Sherlock really look sad when he thinks John can't see him? And if so...why???

No  he doesn't look sad. He looks deep in thought.
He's already decided that he will need to fake his death; he is trying to sum up the impact on John, possibly deciding whether to let John in on the plan.
Molly mistakes the looks for sadness. I would say it was more of a case of mixed feelings.
When Molly says she's getting something to eat & does he want anything, I think he was going ask her then about her helping him with the plan but decided to wait to see how things panned out.

Sadness isn't a useful emotion; you cannot change what will be. In its place Sherlock has thoughts of how to 'right wrongs'.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

May 1, 2012 3:49 am  #4


Re: Looking Sad

kazza474 wrote:

When Molly says she's getting something to eat & does he want anything, I think he was going ask her then about her helping him with the plan but decided to wait to see how things panned out

I think he was genuinely surprised by her "I don't count" comment and he was going to ask for something as a weird way of letting her know that she does and he does appreciate her.


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May 1, 2012 4:16 am  #5


Re: Looking Sad

Hmm, perhaps. That's if he usually cares about people's low self esteem.

Couldn't that 'surprise' be because he naturally thought Molly would always be on hand whenever he needed her and hence in THAT way, she does 'matter'? He would be surprised to think 'oh, I assumed she'd be a willing participant when I needed her most; perhaps I need to let her know that I need her?"

I guess we will see; again I think it is a case of how 'human and vulnerable' we believe Sherlock to be.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

May 19, 2012 9:04 pm  #6


Re: Looking Sad

I think Sherlock DOES look sad.
I mean not sad sad as normal people do... but in his Sherlock way. Molly knows him well enough and is quite observant, so she notices that.
He looks sad when John can't see him because he knows what is about to happen. He knows that he probably needs to fake his death eventually - he isn't sad because he thinks he might actually die, no, because he already planned everything out.
But he knows that faking his death means that he will have to make believe he's dead to John (Mrs. Hudson, Lestrade...) and he knows how much this will hurt him (them). And that makes him sad - the pain this is going to cause to his only friends.

 

May 19, 2012 9:30 pm  #7


Re: Looking Sad

I agree with you Sammy. Also, if you watch Sherlock's expressions when only we (the audience) can see him, and there are several examples of this in TRF, I believe that here lie the clues to Sherlock's true emotions at that moment.


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June 4, 2012 2:50 am  #8


Re: Looking Sad

kazza474 wrote:

Hmm, perhaps. That's if he usually cares about people's low self esteem.

I think he's beginning to care.  To me, I thought he almost looked hurt when Molly said "I don't count".   And I, too, felt he was going to take her up on the chips offer in an effort to be more "friendly". 

But I'm fully aware my intpretations are based on what I WANT them to mean.  I want everybody in Sherlock's world to be happy. 

 

June 4, 2012 3:05 am  #9


Re: Looking Sad

I think when Molly says, "I don't count.", Sherlock has an epiphany--here's someone that I can fully trust in, but who Moriarty will never suspect I would confide in. So, in that way, Sherlock is very calculating here. But I also believe another purpose to the scene is to let us see a small glimpse of Sherlock beginning to value Molly on an emotional level, as a friend. I know, kazza, that that comment is grit in your precision instruments, but there you have it. 


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June 11, 2012 12:40 am  #10


Re: Looking Sad

I love that there can be so many interpretations of this scene based on our own viewpoints of the show. Here's mine.......Molly surprises us (and Sherlock) by her astute and accurate observation of sadness when John is not looking.  He has been keeping a neutral demeanor for John because he knows what the end result is likely to be in a final showdown with Moriarty; but he hasn't realized how closely he is being watched over by, what is to his mind, a rather flighty young lab woman. Nor has he realized the depth of her knowledge of him. I love how he slowly comes up from behind the microscope and really, really sees at her for the first time. "You see me."  "I don't count."  That line breaks my heart because on one level I interpret it to mean "I don't count because you are blind to me.  You don't bother hiding from me because you don't even see I'm here."  But on an even deeper level I take it to mean that she now realizes who does count in Sherlock's life....and it's not someone she could ever compete with.  The unspoken line is "I don't count, but he does."  BTW, when I first watched the show I wondered why she said the line because we really don't see Sherlock looking sad in the lab scene.  But when ran it again I saw a moment I had missed earlier.  We see Sherlock look at John in the mirror when they are getting ready to leave for the Moriarty trial and we see a quiet, sad expression on his face.  He "knows" even then.  This moment is "reflected" back later by Molly's comment.


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June 11, 2012 2:27 am  #11


Re: Looking Sad

KeepersPrice wrote:

I  BTW, when I first watched the show I wondered why she said the line because we really don't see Sherlock looking sad in the lab scene.  But when ran it again I saw a moment I had missed earlier.  We see Sherlock look at John in the mirror when they are getting ready to leave for the Moriarty trial and we see a quiet, sad expression on his face.  He "knows" even then.  This moment is "reflected" back later by Molly's comment.

You're right about how we interpret through our own filters.  My take on the looking-in-the-mirror scene was that Sherlock was a little amused (fondly) that John was getting so spiffed up for the court appearance.  Next time I watch (and oh, yes, there will be a next time) I'll keep your comment in mind and see if it colors my perception. 

I loved how Sherlock made eye contact and smiles w/John while in court.  You could just feel the friendship and closeness they'd developed.  Well, that's how I interpreted it anyway. 

 

June 11, 2012 2:39 am  #12


Re: Looking Sad

Yes, wow. I believe that is Sherlock looking into the mirror with his serious face on; not really a sad face.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 26, 2012 7:26 am  #13


Re: Looking Sad

Wholocked wrote:

kazza474 wrote:

When Molly says she's getting something to eat & does he want anything, I think he was going ask her then about her helping him with the plan but decided to wait to see how things panned out

I think he was genuinely surprised by her "I don't count" comment and he was going to ask for something as a weird way of letting her know that she does and he does appreciate her.

I don't think he was going to ask about the plan then. I don't think he knew he was going to ask her about that until after he met Moriarty at Kitty's place. I think he was going to change his "no I don't want anything" into asking for something because he's learning that sometimes you say things not because you really want the crisps but because it's what you're supposed to say in social situations. Like, he realized Molly was asking because she was supposed to ask to be polite. The same way Molly pointed out that he "should probably say thank you now." I think the whole almost asking for something was just to show that Sherlock is trying to relate to others more, which is probably supposed to be interpreted as Sherlock evolving from some machine-like thing to a more humanized person since both John's arrival and the start of the series.


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“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn!" - Jack Kerouac
 

June 26, 2012 10:55 am  #14


Re: Looking Sad

I think we need to defer to the intuition of the characters. Sherlock may not look sad in a traditional sense because admittedly he does not display emotion the way the rest of us might. He only wears certain emotions, for example, disdain, exhilaration and boastful pride and the like on his sleeve. But Molly is around Sherlock every day and surely through trial and error and by accumulation of bumps and bruises in jousting with him, she has a sense of him. I would strongly bet she has it right.


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June 26, 2012 3:13 pm  #15


Re: Looking Sad

Sentimental Pulse wrote:

she has a sense of him. I would strongly bet she has it right.

Agreed. I don't think the writers would have Molly say that if it weren't true.


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“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn!" - Jack Kerouac
 

July 27, 2012 2:38 pm  #16


Re: Looking Sad

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Does Sherlock really look sad when he thinks John can't see him? And if so...why???

If you were scared senseless of an enemy that wanted nothing more than to stick you in an oven and burn you to a crisp like an overdone gingerbread man, and if you were afraid that your partner was going to be extremely badly hurt over the whole thing that was very apt to about to happen to you, wouldn't you look "sad" when you thought he wasn't looking? This speaks to Sherlock's basic humanity, the high-functioning part of his psychological make up. It makes me want to hug him.

 

September 30, 2012 12:47 am  #17


Re: Looking Sad

Actually, I found that moment VERY suspicious. I didn't see anything but standard poker face from Sherlock at that moment, so Molly saying that was a BIG mistake. Totally out of character for her, especially given Sherlock's behaviour towards her up til that point (with one exception). And his speech to her at the end unusually emotional and gentle ... . I don't think Molly helped him at all. Something else happened beyond what we saw. I wrote more on this in the molly hooper post.

Last edited by MaggieM (September 30, 2012 12:49 am)

 

September 30, 2012 10:49 pm  #18


Re: Looking Sad

MaggieM wrote:

Actually, I found that moment VERY suspicious. I didn't see anything but standard poker face from Sherlock at that moment, so Molly saying that was a BIG mistake. Totally out of character for her, especially given Sherlock's behaviour towards her up til that point (with one exception). And his speech to her at the end unusually emotional and gentle ... . I don't think Molly helped him at all. Something else happened beyond what we saw. I wrote more on this in the molly hooper post.

^^ I agree. 

Molly Hooper knows the truth!!


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

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     Thread Starter
 

October 4, 2012 10:33 pm  #19


Re: Looking Sad

I've actually watched for the supposedly sad look and haven't found it yet.

Last edited by veecee (October 4, 2012 10:33 pm)

 

October 4, 2012 10:38 pm  #20


Re: Looking Sad

^ Same. I guess Molly just may be REALLY good at reading REALLY subtle facial expressions. (assuming that's what the scene was truly about)


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