BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Asking Molly for help

Sherlock Holmes · April 30, 2012 11:55 pm

When he goes to ask Molly for help, we now know he is asking her to help him fake his own death...but the words he says in the part of the scene we actually see....

"If I wasn't everything I thought I am, everything you think I am, would you still want to help me?"

What exactly does he mean by that?

kazza474 · May 1, 2012 2:18 am

If I wasn't everything I thought I am, everything you think I am, would you still want to help me?

If I wasn't everything I thought I am - he thinks himself a detective battling the forces of evil for the good of society.

everything you think I am- Molly believes he is a detective battling the forces of evil for the good of society; she believes he is doing things for the right reasons, so much so that she allows him to beat dead bodies, use body parts for research etc, without having a specific 'job or position' in the hospital. That would take a lot of trust in his motivation.

He is asking 'what if I am not doing all these things for the reasons you think? What if I was fooling you all along?

Her answer shows that she knows that is not the case and that she still trusts his motivation and knows he would do no wrong. She would have heard about the police raid, his escape from custody etc because no doubt the police would have checked whether he was there earlier in the evening.

Davina · May 1, 2012 6:29 am

He asks Molly the question to test her loyalty, to see if she is a true friend, someone he can trust utterly. He has already ascertained John's loyalty slightly earlier in the episode. She had offered to help him whatever he might need earlier in the episode and now he has come to test the strength of that offer. She did say if he needed ANYTHING now he is seeing whether she will still help him, even though his credentials etc. have been called into doubt. It is also just possible that Lestrade may have been in touch with her to keep her abridge of what has been going on.

The bottom line is, even if the accusations about him are true, will she still help him? Answer: she will.

Sherlock Holmes · May 1, 2012 6:42 am

Because she luurrrrves him...lol.

Seriously though, good answer. So basically he thinks she will have heard about what's been going on and he just wanted to test her...and she believes in him just like John does...

Davina · May 1, 2012 7:08 am

Exactly! And she IS TOTALLY LOYAL .

kazza474 · May 1, 2012 10:52 am

Let's strip away the gloss here. This is a man on the run.
It's a bit late for testing loyalties with someone like Molly; either he trusts her & can therefore appear in the lab with her late at night or he can't, in which case she could have screamed & called security.
I doubt he was testing her; through all their contact previously he already knows he can trust her.

Davina · May 1, 2012 10:56 am

But allowing for a little artistic license having him in a totally vulnerable position and having to have to ask for her help makes for a good scene and somewhat changes the dynamics between the two of them she did offer to help him before so he is calling in this offer.

Wholocked · May 1, 2012 1:40 pm

The thing about Sherlock is that he is human. He is vulnerable. He does need people. He tries very hard to pretend he doesn't, but he does. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he needed a little reassurance from her that she would still support him even if these rumours were true before he opened himself entirely to her. Common theory suggests that Molly and possibly (probably) Mycroft are the only ones he shared his intention to fake his death. Why would he not need reassurance before he trusted her with something so huge?

kazza474 · May 2, 2012 1:52 am

This all comes down to each person's interpretation of what is happening here. And it will remain an interpretation until we see the next episode.
I don't see Sherlock in a vulnerable position that calls for him to need only Molly. She is on hand & usable but certainly not his only option.
I see his asking for help as meaning 'are you willing to help me, because if you do it could come back & bite you on the backside?' Let's face it, she risks her job, her integrity so possibly her future by helping him. Is she willing to do that? He knows she is willing to help, but has she thought of the consequences?

To Wholocked : And yes Sherlock is human but vulnerable? Needs people? Does he? He gets help from people, but if one person won't/can't he moves to the next; it's not a 'need' for people to be in his life. They too are just transport to get to where he needs to get to. Needin people involves caring and he, like his brother cannot afford that luxury.

tobeornot221b · May 2, 2012 4:02 am

Of course Sherlock does care. Otherwise he wouldn't have jumped to prevent his friends from being killed.
After Moriarty's suicide there was no need for him to do so if he just wanted to save his own life. "Alone protects me" would have worked for him if he hadn't had friends who he cared for.

kazza474 · May 2, 2012 4:52 am

No, he jumped to stop innocent people from dying.
Just as he stopped other crimes & others being hurt because he is on the side of 'good' rather than 'bad'.
"Caring' was not the primary incentive. Stopping evil was, secondary reason was to beat Moriarty at his own game.

Davina · May 2, 2012 7:17 am

Cannot for the life of me which article with the Moff or Mr. Gatiss it was in but I recall that they said that Ahrlock does care. He wishes he didn't and he tries hard to be cold and unfeeling but the fact is, despite himself, he does care.

kazza474 · May 2, 2012 7:34 am

In all honesty it would be impossible not to 'care' at all; however 'caring' is a subjective thing & means different things to different people. There is a more analytical reason for Sherlock's actions, as with all his actions - to defeat evil.

Sherlock Holmes · May 2, 2012 9:23 pm

Moriarty knows that Sherlock does have a heart, which is why he knew he would be able to use his friends to force him to jump. Otherwise he could have just said, "go ahead, kill 'em, see what I care".

kazza474 · May 3, 2012 3:21 am

Ah but in all fairness, Sherlock didn't 'care' about the people being used as human bombs did he?

"Do you even care?"
"Will caring save them?"
"No."
"Then I will continue not to care."

His motivation was to triumph over evil. And he put a lot of effort into saving those he didn't 'care' about.
So this situation is similar.
Just a logical progression of thought really.

Davina · May 3, 2012 7:04 am

Ah! But these were people he didn't know, had never met, had no relationship with. They were easy not to ca about and to distance himself from. In TGG Maoristy tells Sherlock that it isn't quite true that Sherlock has no heart, although he may have been told that. That is what Moriarty relies upon thereafter.

kazza474 · May 3, 2012 11:30 am

So we are to judge Sherlock's thoughts and motivations based upon the words of Moriarty?
Also, yes he did not know the victims but he was concerned for their welfare; just as he is concerned for the welfare of other innocent people in Reichenbach.
I also wonder, did he really 'care' so much that he would risk his life for someone whose first name he didn't know until recently?

I can actually deduce one thing from this thread: by the time we get to see Series 3, the essence of the characters created will have been lost in suppositions rather than the raw product that was originally presented to the audience.

Davina · May 3, 2012 11:41 am

Agree to differ.

katten · May 3, 2012 1:19 pm

so kazza474 do you mean sherlock don't care about John or Mrs Hudson?

Sherlock Holmes · May 3, 2012 1:46 pm

kazza474 wrote:
I also wonder, did he really 'care' so much that he would risk his life for someone whose first name he didn't know until recently?

Ha, you mean Greg?? No, there's no way Sherlock would risk his life for Lestrade...he's a random one just thrown in there...I don't think he'd even risk his life for Mrs Hudson...John is different though, I think he would for John. Although, if you wanted to be really cynical about it, you could say that Sherlock isn't actually risking his life for anyone, seeing as he already knows he's going to fake it.