BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



January 1, 2013 10:22 am  #1


hello.....may i ask a question ?

hello to all
i would like to ask a question about the Scandal In Belgravia episode
in the beginning of the episode when the little girls came to HIM and asked about her grandfather she says "does that means he is going to heaven"
HE replies "people don't really go to heaven, they just take to a room and burn"

what does he mean ?
does he mean hell or something else?

thank you in advance

**edited to remove the advertising feature in the name of the main character.**

Last edited by kazza474 (January 3, 2013 3:30 am)

 

January 1, 2013 10:37 am  #2


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

No, he means dead people are cremated and the body ashes are all that remain.
This incidentally is my favourite line of the Sherlock, to date.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 11:30 am  #3


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

May I ask another question here regrading to this episode? I'm new here and don't know if I should create a topic for my questions.
I'm kind of confused about this part of dialogue between John and Irene:
John Watson: Who the hell knows about Sherlock Holmes, but... for the record, if anyone out there still cares — I'm not actually gay.
Irene Adler: Well, I am. Look at us both.
what I understand is Irene is actually a lesbian but flirts with men,and john is straight but "is a couple" with sherlock , am I correct?

 

January 1, 2013 11:30 am  #4


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

besleybean wrote:

No, he means dead people are cremated and the body ashes are all that remain.
This incidentally is my favourite line of the Sherlock, to date.

Yup that line is about cremation.
I love that line too.
Also the look on the kid's faces are absolutely priceless...

Last edited by Mnemosyne (January 1, 2013 11:31 am)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/110410966/eye%20crop%20sig%20small.jpg
'Non Solum Ingenii Verum Etiam Virtutis'
                
 

January 1, 2013 11:32 am  #5


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

Tho the look on John's face is even better!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 2:53 pm  #6


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

immortal wrote:

I'm kind of confused about this part of dialogue between John and Irene:
John Watson: Who the hell knows about Sherlock Holmes, but... for the record, if anyone out there still cares — I'm not actually gay.
Irene Adler: Well, I am. Look at us both.
what I understand is Irene is actually a lesbian but flirts with men,and john is straight but "is a couple" with sherlock , am I correct?

I took Irene's statement less as, "I'm a lesbian but manipulate men for my job," and more as, "My sexual attractions are not restricted by sex or gender." But that may just be me projecting myself onto her. My thought is that sexual attraction is often not just hard lines of "male" or "female" but rather combinations of form, personality, abilities, and other aspects, and some are more free-flowing about gender/sex than others.

John at least believes himself to be straight and doesn't feel his relationship with Sherlock is sexual. He does love Sherlock, but the love that's shown in the show is a platonic love, and doesn't necessarily include sexual attraction. They're not "in a couple" in that there isn't a romantic relationship between them. But people want to categorize and assume, and they're assumed to be in a couple by many. Irene may be hinting at a potential for the relationship to become romantically involved... or she may just be teasing John.

 

January 1, 2013 3:15 pm  #7


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

Sorry, I missed the 2nd question.
My input:
Irene identifies herself as gay. Suddenly when she meets Sherlock, all of her preconceptions are blown out of the water.  This is because Sherlock is so different to other men.  I think Irene finds Sherlock attractive for a number of reasons,  Possibly many of the men she meets through her work...are, well, let's face it:  NONE of them would have been as clever as Sherlock. Irene possibly also finds the fact of their being so open to sexual manipulation quite pathetic...but clearly Sherlock cannot be manipulated that way.  Sherlock also acknowledges Irene's brain, she will not be used to men emphasising that aspect to her. Sherlock also treats Irene moderately respectfully, she may also not be used to that.  Sherlock is also honest and non-flattering,  Irene will most likely not have encountered those traits from her clients. Irene may normally have associated good men as boring, but Sherlock blasts those stereotypes from the water. Irene may basically see Sherlock as a challenge.
John identifies as straight and I see nothing so far to have changed that. He and Sherlock love each other, but it is bromance, not romance.  Theirs is love but not sexual attraction.
I think Irene's point is that Sherlock is different to everybody else and so those close to him are going to react differently to how they normally do to other people. I think she is teasing John.
John isn't jealous, he is genuinely concerned for his friend's safety and he thinks Irene is dangerous.

Last edited by besleybean (January 1, 2013 4:19 pm)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 4:18 pm  #8


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

besleybean wrote:

I think Irene's point is that Sherlock is different to everybody else and so those close to him are going to react differently to how they normally do to other people. I think she is teasing John.
John isn't jealous, he is genuine;y concerned for his friend's safety and he thinks Irene is dangerous.

I think she starts off by teasing John with the, "Are you jealous?" line. (It's quite similar to what she did in the 'naked' scene when she remarks, "Somebody loves you...".  Althought there's an edge to the teasing in that scene because she's trying to undermine them and throw them off guard with coy sexual innuendo).  In the warehouse, she starts by teasing but then I think she becomes quite serious. Irene is like Sherlock and she 'observes'.  She's very, very good at her occupation (top of the line) and she knows how to read people and she knows what they 'like'. I think she's implying that there are feelings below the surface that John can not admit to.  She has them too, but she's admitting to them even though she considers herself gay. She's pointing out to John that he is in the same boat as she is - only he's straight. Again, this is my interp and I certainly understand if others don't see it that way.  I like how this show allows that. Straight forward discussion of sexuality could not have come up in ACD but it can in BBC.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p635/lianafuller/qwer_zpsbebc7b3b.png
 

January 1, 2013 4:24 pm  #9


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

I really cannot see this...John having underlying feelings thing. I could see Irene recognised John's love for Sherlock and possibly to her love= sex.
I think Irene is a  tad surprised by John's reaction...she possibly does mistake it for jealousy.Yes she possibly genuinely thinks John feels just the same as her.  But I think she is mistaken.  They both love Sherlock, but possibly only Irene is in- love with/attracted to him.
I think what Irene is recognising for her and John, is that both of them have a total dependence on Sherlock.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 4:44 pm  #10


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

besleybean wrote:

I really cannot see this...John having underlying feelings thing. I could see Irene recognised John's love for Sherlock and possibly to her love= sex.
I think Irene is a  tad surprised by John's reaction...she possibly does mistake it for jealousy.Yes she possibly genuinely thinks John feels just the same as her.  But I think she is mistaken.  They both love Sherlock, but possibly only Irene is in- love with/attracted to him.
I think what Irene is recognising for her and John, is that both of them have a total dependence on Sherlock.

Okay, so we agree to disagree. No problem.  But I'm not sure what you mean about 'total dependence'.  I think there's a co-dependency between John and Sherlock - each fulfilling some kind of need in the other; but I'm not sure about Irene's total dependence - other than the fact that she needs her phone back and the code broken. Is that what you mean?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p635/lianafuller/qwer_zpsbebc7b3b.png
 

January 1, 2013 4:50 pm  #11


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

Well I suppose I was kind of reading the story backwards...so you're maybe right to question my analysis.
I'll try another tack.
John has never seen a woman have an effect on Sherlock like Irene does, he is confused and trying to make sense of it all himself.  I do just think he sees Irene as trouble and wants to keep her as far from Sherlock as possible.  A sentiment I share with him, I confess!
Anyhow, because Irene is also experiencing confusing feelings about Sherlock, she perhaps confuses John 's concern for Sherlock's safety with jealousy.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 5:43 pm  #12


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

besleybean wrote:

Irene identifies herself as gay. Suddenly when she meets Sherlock, all of her preconceptions are blown out of the water.  This is because Sherlock is so different to other men.  I think Irene finds Sherlock attractive for a number of reasons,  Possibly many of the men she meets through her work...are, well, let's face it:  NONE of them would have been as clever as Sherlock. Irene possibly also finds the fact of their being so open to sexual manipulation quite pathetic...but clearly Sherlock cannot be manipulated that way.  Sherlock also acknowledges Irene's brain, she will not be used to men emphasising that aspect to her. Sherlock also treats Irene moderately respectfully, she may also not be used to that.  Sherlock is also honest and non-flattering,  Irene will most likely not have encountered those traits from her clients. Irene may normally have associated good men as boring, but Sherlock blasts those stereotypes from the water. Irene may basically see Sherlock as a challenge.

wow, I hadn't thought about that. It is a very interesting interpretation.

besleybean wrote:

John identifies as straight and I see nothing so far to have changed that. He and Sherlock love each other, but it is bromance, not romance.  Theirs is love but not sexual attraction.

Yes, I forgot the expression "bromance" and when I said in the question that they are a couple, it was sarcastic! I meant they spend so much time together, they care about eachother...well, bromance!

besleybean wrote:

I think Irene's point is that Sherlock is different to everybody else and so those close to him are going to react differently to how they normally do to other people. I think she is teasing John.
John isn't jealous, he is genuinely concerned for his friend's safety and he thinks Irene is dangerous.

The idea of john being gay is becoming a comedy source for the show.Everyone always assumes that "why does a man that age share a flat/spend that much time with another man ? they must be gay" and seeing how uncomfortable it makes john , Irene continues to tease him about that through the whole episode.

 

January 1, 2013 5:47 pm  #13


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

It's certainly a running  joke throughout BBC Sherlock.  But the viewer is supposed to be in on the joke and laugh at other characters for making that mistake about Sherlock and John.
However their love is very real. Some people just confuse love and sex.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 1, 2013 8:58 pm  #14


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

besleybean wrote:

Some people just confuse love and sex.

This.

Irene knows how to play on people's weaknesses. Their likes, dislikes, their triggers. She knows what would rub John up the wrong way. But that commet: 'Yes you are' is correct. They are a couple: not a romantic or sexual one, but a couple nonetheless. One cannot exist without the other, not in any meaningful way. At that point in their lives they depend on one another in the same way we would depend on a close friend or family member.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/110410966/eye%20crop%20sig%20small.jpg
'Non Solum Ingenii Verum Etiam Virtutis'
                
 

January 1, 2013 9:00 pm  #15


Re: hello.....may i ask a question ?

Yep.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum