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April 14, 2012 7:39 am  #1


Sherlock offering himself

Please forgive my English. It's not my mother-tongue.
Now I am not at all confident that this can be true or nobody has mentioned it earlier. But just a possibility which occurred to me while watching this scene for nth time.
But -
Is Sherlock offering himself to Moriarty in this scene, when he says 'I am ready to shake hands with you in hell'? There are references earlier in the series that Moriarty refers to Sherlock as 'sexy, dear, darling....' and so on. Does he want to 'have' Sherlock? And finally to save his friends is Sherlock ready to do that too?
Would love to read your views...

Last edited by meghana.bhuskute (April 14, 2012 7:44 am)

 

April 14, 2012 7:59 am  #2


Re: Sherlock offering himself

I don't think there's any sexual connotations (not unless you wanna right a fan fic about it), it's more just that Sherlock is saying he can be just as ruthless (and violent) as Moriarty...he's on the side of the angels but he's not one of them, he's prepared to do things that other people aren't...


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April 14, 2012 8:01 am  #3


Re: Sherlock offering himself

But then how can he convey that (that he can be just as ruthless as Moriarty...) in just one look / hand-shake?

     Thread Starter
 

April 14, 2012 8:34 am  #4


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Agreed, the "sexy, dear, darling" words are just affected speech, terms
of ironic, flirty, creepy endearment.


> But then how can he convey that (that he can be just as ruthless as Moriarty...) in just one look / hand-shake?


It's a really well acted scene.  With just one look
and hand-shake,   Sherlock becomes just as resolved as Moriarty
in his single-minded intention.  In this case,  now knowing
how he will end this game,  he plans to be as ruthless as Moriarty
when it come to the disregard of his friends' feelings.
He realizes he's about to hurt them, although he may not
know just how badly.   He is on the side of the angels (he
wants to save his friends)  but it is a cruel act he's about
to pull off,  one that will hurt those he cares for, for a few years.

Of course, he's still thrown off-guard when Moriaty dies unexpectedly,
so we're not sure if he's still sure how he will proceed... but he does follow through in the end.

 

April 14, 2012 8:44 am  #5


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Sherlock was prepared to die for his friends. And Moriarty knew that he was, which was why he was so convinced his plan to force Sherlock's suicide would work. (If Sherlock really didn't care, he would have just said 'fine, kill them'). I'm not sure he really sees what he's about to do as a cruel act or something that will hurt people. As far as he's concerned he's doing it to help his friends but in this way he can do it without having to actually die.


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April 14, 2012 8:53 am  #6


Re: Sherlock offering himself

That whole conversation was about convincing Moriarty that Sherlock can also be ruthless. It's not about Sherlock's suicide or about his friends; it's about Moriarty calling off the assassins, and Sherlock being able to make him do so. Only when Moriarty kills himself does Sherlock truly have no option but to go through with the supposed suicide.


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April 14, 2012 9:09 am  #7


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Yeah, as in Sherlock would be better at torturing him for information than his brother was.


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April 15, 2012 4:52 am  #8


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Hi meghana (and anyone else who's interested)

I have written my own take on what I think happens on the rooftop on my website. It's too long to re-type and it wouldn't let me copy it here (because my blog has white letters on black background!)

Anyway, if you're interested, you can take a peek here: http://shenanigans1895.livejournal.com/2607.html


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Moriarty: "How hard do you find it? Having to say 'I don't know' ?"
Sherlock: "I don't know."
Moriarty: "Oh that's clever, that's very clever, awfully clever."
 

April 15, 2012 5:57 am  #9


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Very interesting read, thank you.
But way too complicated to be true, I think.
I also can find no apparent clue in the episode for the iris thing – and there has to be one, according to Gatiss.
There has to be a solution of quite a different nature – a very simple one!
Remember the one of the pool scene…


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April 15, 2012 6:52 am  #10


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Yeah, not everything has to have a complicated solution. At least...that's what Jim Moriarty told me.


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April 15, 2012 7:10 am  #11


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Thanks for your inputs. I am not really sealing this explanation, it just occurred to me, that's it.
Amazing how one keeps on guessing, what it can be, and still doesn't really want to know exactly what Sherlock might be indicating!
Thanks a lot for this platform anyway, it is less difficult to wait for summer-2013 with this forum.

     Thread Starter
 

April 15, 2012 8:38 am  #12


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Let's remember:
Moriarty is not actually gay. He changes his persona constantly, like a chameleon. This is done to unnerve his rivals. Everything is a huge game to him and his game against Sherlock is the ultimate game with the ultimate ending.
Sherlock was telling Moriarty that no matter how far Moriarty will go to try & win, Sherlock will go just as far. This was a dare from Sherlock to make Moriarty go as far as he wanted to try & win the game.
So he did.
OOPS!


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

April 15, 2012 11:33 am  #13


Re: Sherlock offering himself

I belong to the fraction, who thinks, theres more to the roof top conversation than just psychological wrestling. Even, if Sherlock implies, that he might be as ruthless as Moriarty - so what? Moriarty tells him, that nothing, not even torture, will force the code out of him. Moriarty doesnt care for his own life and well being. He wants to win the game by absolutely forcing Sherlock to jump. His first mistake was to let Sherlock know, there IS a recall code. Firstly, this is of no great concern to him ('You talk big...'), but then he sees something or Sherlock conveys to him, that he understood the nature of the recall code. Jim says 'as long as you've got me, you don't have to die..., Well good luck with that!', before he kills himself. If the recall code really consists of biometrical data, which only a living body can give, Moriarty has, by killing himself, destroyed this code once and for all. Sherlock has to go through with the jump, and that was all that ever mattered to Jim. By killing himself he has won at least part of the game.
Biometrical data as code isnt really that far fetched. Its used in many areas nowadays; they even can be transmitted by smart phones. Whatever the details, the thought that Jim kills himself in order to destroy that code is a very elegant theory.
As to clues, which must possibly exist: MoGiss said ages ago, that everybody missed a vital clue, as to how Sherlock faked his death. But, what we are discussing here, has nothing to do with the fake. And the dialog on the roof gives hints , IMO. I'm not quite sold on shenanigan's theory, how Sherlock got Moriarty's identity by scanning his iris with the hidden camera. This seems too inaccurate, but to think of biometrics in connection with Moriarty's suicide has a lot of merits.

P.S: Iris encryption can be faked (spoofed, as the technical term is) with contact lenses, but there are more sophisticated programs, which can detect the spoof. So, if there is a possibility of biometrics being involved here, Moriarty must have made sure, that only his living body could transmit them.

Last edited by sherlocked (April 15, 2012 12:08 pm)

 

April 15, 2012 3:40 pm  #14


Re: Sherlock offering himself

I think that much of this scene owes a debt to ACD's original story The F inal Problem (see this week's story to read). In this Moriarty says to Sherlock  Holmes, ' I tall you that you will never beat me. If you are clever enough to bring destruction upon me, rest assured that I shall do as much to you.'
To which Sherlock Holmes replies, ' you have paid me several compliments Mr. Moriarty...Let me pay you one in return when I say that if I were assured of the former eventuality I would, in the interests of the public, cheerfully accept the latter.'
Sherlock also asserts that in the thousand cases he has undertaken he has never been working for the wrong side.
Later in the story he leaves a letter for John Watson in which he says not only that his career was reaching a crisis ( another interesting parallel here) but also ' I am please to think that I shall be able to free society from any further effects of his presence, though I fear it is at a cost which will give pain to my friends , and, especially to you, my dear Watson to you.'

Since Moftiss are very great fans of the original Sherlock Holmes stories I am convinced that they would try to keep to the original spirit of the story, particularly in this denouement.


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April 15, 2012 5:21 pm  #15


Re: Sherlock offering himself

In other words...it's canon. 


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April 16, 2012 3:20 am  #16


Re: Sherlock offering himself

Ahh it's nice to see people reading up on their canon's!!


Remember, keep reading them all, it's a good feeling when you see the new shows and think " hey, I know that bit !"


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

April 16, 2012 6:38 am  #17


Re: Sherlock offering himself

you can never have too much canon!


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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