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April 13, 2012 9:17 pm  #1


"...unless my men see you jump"

How did Sherlock know that Moriarty's men wouldn't see him faking it?


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April 13, 2012 10:44 pm  #2


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Well, Moriary said 'unless they see you jump'; that's, why Sherlock HAD to jump, and jump he did. Moriarty did not say 'unless they see you hit the ground', probably because he did not figure, Sherlock could save himself, once he was 'airborn', so to speak.
Also the idea crossed my mind, that Sherlock wanted John to stay at a certain place and distance, not only because he was not supposed to see Sherlock hit the ground, but because that made sure, the sniper, who was responsible for John, could not see it either. Though this thought is only relevant, if Moriarty had John's sniper as the lone observer of Sherlock and not someone else as well.

Last edited by sherlocked (April 13, 2012 10:45 pm)

 

April 13, 2012 10:56 pm  #3


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Well, just finished watching TRF again. And I came here just to post something similar to this.

I still think that Sherlock had to fake his death in a way that could fool Moriarty's men (he didn't know where they were) and, most importantly, Moriarty himself. I still don't believe Sherlock knew Moriarty would kill himself. So all that theories about the trunk, changing bodies, etc. don't make sense, in my opinion. Sherlock must have planned it in a way that could fool Moriarty looking to it. So...

One thing that I always find a bit strange is the way Sherlock moves his arms and legs during the fall. It's like if he was trying to do something as he was falling. I know  military parachutist are trained to soften a hit on the ground and that there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of death on a fall like that. Anyway, I really don't know what kind of trainning they do or what things they're told to do in order to achieve this. But, it is possible to survive a fall from 50 mts if you do certain things like relaxing your muscles, landing in a certain way, etc. Could Sherlock be trying to do that?
Each time I watch this I'm more convinced that Sherlock threw himself off the roof of St Barts and landed on the ground. Seriously injured, but still alive. We really don't know how much time has been from the fall to the scene in the graveyard, so why not? It's the only way he could really trick Moriarty if he was alive.

Another thing: that conversation between Moriarty and Sherlock is going to burn my brain. There's something there and I still don't get it. Too much "you", "me", "ordinary" and "angels". It probably means nothing important, but I still think there must be something more to that conversation.

This is just a silly question that I never remember to ask and I don't think it's appropriate to make a new post just for it: as you know, I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes there are things that sound a bit weird to me. So there it goes... the Chief Superintendent (moron) speaks with a quite strange accent (to me). Is it characteristic of some place in the UK? I can't identify it as any of the most common accents I've heard; I get the Irish in Andrew Scott but I don't know what kind of accent is this one.

And to finish this rant, today I find that the most brilliant part in this episode is the "Sir Boast-a-Lot" story. Brilliantly filmed, edited and acted. Though each day I find a different part to be the most brilliant...


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

 

April 13, 2012 11:20 pm  #4


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Irene, Sherlock jumps indeed like a parachutist, but I really cannot imagine, he planned to hit the ground. Yes, you can survive that, if you are VERY lucky and skilled, which Sherlock probably isn't. And count on his luck? This is Sherlock! He certainly has a better and safer plan into place! (That's one reason, by the way, why I don't believe into the trolley theory of the 'final problem ' tumblr. Too risky as well). Also the body, which hits the ground, does so in the wrong angle. If this is Sherlock, and I think, it must be him, something must have broken his fall. It can be something, which causes him to roll onto the ground immediately and which can be removed very quickly, maybe by throwing it onto the truck.It could be even a net, which was attached with two point at the truck's reilling. Then only two people were needed to hold it up.But that's very speculative, of course. Sherlock probably jumps like a parachuter to controll his fall better. Also, moving his limbs shows the observers, that this is not a dead body or a dummy. That should be good enough for the sniper.
As to what Sherlock planned for Moriarty, that's another can of worms, but Moriarty certainly would not have peered over the edge of the roof, since he could not have afforded to be spotted by someone. He probably would have been contend to see Sherlock jump as well.
I also do not believe into the body switch outside of the hospital. That really seems too risky to me. Which means of course, that the different body on the stretcher, which can be seen just before it goes into the hospital entrance, must be a continuity error, but we have found quite a few by now, lol! Unless they aren't...
I also discover new points of brilliance, every time I watch. That's, why I don't get tired of analyzing the damn thing, lol!

Last edited by sherlocked (April 13, 2012 11:36 pm)

 

April 13, 2012 11:29 pm  #5


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Yes, I agree with everything you said. It has to be all about "a trick, a magic trick".
Maybe a piece of research with all the Copperfield magicians could be useful...


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

April 13, 2012 11:40 pm  #6


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Yes, Sherlock would have made a great magician! I even saw something on youtube with wires, which were perfectly invisible from all angles in broad day light, but that was used for the magician flying, not falling; and wires have to be cut after the fall, which sounds tricky...

 

April 13, 2012 11:52 pm  #7


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

You're surely right... it's just I can't stop thinking that any kind of trick Sherlock did had to be more less obvious than the truck thing or the body changing. I don't know. And we won't know in a long time...
But, probably the limb movement was just to control the fall.
And what about Molly?

- What do you need?
- You.

He does not say "your help". "I need your help". He says "you". "I need you". Molly's implication has to be something big.

And now, I think I should go to bed before my brain really explodes 


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

 

April 14, 2012 12:11 am  #8


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

I'm definitely in favour of the landing net theory these days.


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April 14, 2012 12:34 am  #9


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

I also favour the net at the moment. After all, it's a well proven method to get people off quickly from high buildings, it' not bulky, it can be set up quickly and then put away easily.

 

April 14, 2012 11:48 am  #10


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

People see what they want to see. Sherlock is always saying that people see but do not observe. Clearly, if a sniper sees Sherlock jump off the roof he will assume that he will hit the floor with obvious consequences. If Moriarty merely stipulated to his men that they must see Sherlock jump and nothing more , then it is unlikely that they would have taken any more upon themselves. They do not know that Moriarty is dead, presumably, and doing more than they have been told might have dire consequences for them- remember his assassination of the Chinese woman in Blind Banker which clearly shows how ruthless he is (assuming that it IS Jim Moriarty in this scene of course, as we don't hear his voice).

A net does not have to be very big and does not need to be held by many people to work. Funnily enough my daughter was involved in such a rescue whilst on the ski slopes last week. A girl slipped from a chair lift and was being held by two men she was with. My daughter, her instructor, the liftie, plus two others held out a relatively small tarpaulin and the girl fell into it, safely and with no I'll-effects. The waving arms and legs of Sherlock could, maybe, him controlling his fall as in direction?

Irene, The Chief Superintendent's accent is from Northern England. To help you spot this sort of accent, the vowel sounds are different from standard English they are actually much more like  the vowel sounds of German, they are flatter in sound. What gets me is that he wears such BIG old-fashioned glasses!


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

April 14, 2012 1:26 pm  #11


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Parachutists use their arms to manoeuvre themselves yes, but at a much greater speed and over a lot more time than can be done from jumping off a building of that height. His arm movements would have had very little effect on the fall.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

April 14, 2012 1:35 pm  #12


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Is it just there to look cool then? Cause it's working on me...


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April 14, 2012 1:39 pm  #13


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Yes, Sherlock, it's a cool way to show us and maybe the sniper as well, that no dead body or dummy but a living person is tumbling towards the ground. And to fall as Sherlock falls, slows the speed down at least a little bit. It's better than falling vertically with the feet first.

Last edited by sherlocked (April 14, 2012 1:40 pm)

 

April 14, 2012 1:42 pm  #14


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Davina wrote:

Irene, The Chief Superintendent's accent is from Northern England. To help you spot this sort of accent, the vowel sounds are different from standard English they are actually much more like  the vowel sounds of German, they are flatter in sound. What gets me is that he wears such BIG old-fashioned glasses!

Thanks, Davina. It's just something that was bothering me, because it sounded so different to all the other actors... and I didn't get what accent it was.
I agree about the glasses, by the way 


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

 

April 14, 2012 2:42 pm  #15


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Is it just there to look cool then? Cause it's working on me...

lol. On that I would have to say no. It's a relatively normal trait even in land based animals. Start falling from a great height and the limbs start showing some distress. There's a tendency for at least one of them to be touching something.Also the movement of air past them would cause them to move & the natural reaction would be to move them back. with little reference touchwise, that turns into the flailing movements we see.
If he had a definite posture he needed to be in, he would tense his muscles & make that movement (eg someone diving moves their arms into correct positions for a specific purpose) .


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

April 14, 2012 4:17 pm  #16


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

Davina wrote:

People see what they want to see. Sherlock is always saying that people see but do not observe. Clearly, if a sniper sees Sherlock jump off the roof he will assume that he will hit the floor with obvious consequences. If Moriarty merely stipulated to his men that they must see Sherlock jump and nothing more , then it is unlikely that they would have taken any more upon themselves. )

John’s sniper doesn’t put his gun down directly after having witnessed Sherlock’s jump but not earlier than the body is rushed into the hospital - when John’s standing alone outside the building. Maybe that is just for dramatic reasons, but if not, it shows that not the mere jump is crucial but its hitting the ground and the confirmation of death (which sort of does happen, reflected by John’s visible reaction after having taken Sherlock’s – not existing – pulse).

And there’ more:
Clearly, John’s sniper is watching the scene – but what about Lestrade’s and Mrs. Hudson’s? How can they “see"  Sherlock jump? They can’t, unless there is a kind of transmission. Or do they expect a phone call from either Moriarty or John’s sniper which will pull them off?

Last edited by tobeornot221b (April 14, 2012 4:17 pm)


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

April 14, 2012 6:40 pm  #17


Re: "...unless my men see you jump"

I always assumed John's sniper would text the other two and let them know.


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