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September 16, 2012 11:08 am  #101


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

May I be just silly for a moment?
Wedding: non-cannonical possibilities--
Anderson has divorced his wife and is marrying Sally
Lestrade's wife has divorced him and is marrying the PE teacher
John has received an invitation to Anthea's wedding
John and Molly have become quite close, bonding over their loss, and are about to marry

--any of which are, of course, ruined by Sherlock's reappearance:

Anderson is actually happy to see Sherlock (his work has suffered without him) and Sally leaves him because he now believes in Sherlock
the PE teacher is revealed as a paedophile by Sherlock, allowing Lestrade to arrest him
Sherlock and Mycroft have a row and the boys get crossed off Anthea's guest list
John and Molly are busily helping Sherlock again and neither shows up for their wedding

Thanks for letting me dump all that mental tat from the old hard-drive


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What do 'real' people have, then, in their 'real' lives?

So we go round the sun; if we went round the moon, or round and round the garden like a teddy bear, it wouldn't make any difference.

The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation. -- Roger Scruton
 

September 16, 2012 11:30 am  #102


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.




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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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September 16, 2012 11:33 am  #103


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

NW16XE wrote:

May I be just silly for a moment?
Wedding: non-cannonical possibilities--
Anderson has divorced his wife and is marrying Sally
Lestrade's wife has divorced him and is marrying the PE teacher
John has received an invitation to Anthea's wedding
John and Molly have become quite close, bonding over their loss, and are about to marry

--any of which are, of course, ruined by Sherlock's reappearance:

Anderson is actually happy to see Sherlock (his work has suffered without him) and Sally leaves him because he now believes in Sherlock
the PE teacher is revealed as a paedophile by Sherlock, allowing Lestrade to arrest him
Sherlock and Mycroft have a row and the boys get crossed off Anthea's guest list
John and Molly are busily helping Sherlock again and neither shows up for their wedding

Thanks for letting me dump all that mental tat from the old hard-drive

Loving this!
You are so right, there are so many possibilities, we haven't even scratched the surface 
Whichever it turns out to be, we can be quite sure that it won't go without some sort of interference from Sherlock, be it deliberate or just his usual social ignorance 


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"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

September 16, 2012 11:58 am  #104


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

hypergreenfrog wrote:

Whichever it turns out to be, we can be quite sure that it won't go without some sort of interference from Sherlock, be it deliberate or just his usual social ignorance 

Or both:

Sherlock: Obviously, the memory stick badly hidden in this disgusting smelly gym sock belongs to the PE teacher. He is your culprit. For god's sake, what sort of adult man still has gym socks from school with his name written in them?
(the ex-Mrs Lestrade sobbing wildly)
Sherlock: Not good?
Lestrade: No, no, good, very good, mate!

Cheers! 


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What do 'real' people have, then, in their 'real' lives?

So we go round the sun; if we went round the moon, or round and round the garden like a teddy bear, it wouldn't make any difference.

The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation. -- Roger Scruton
 

September 16, 2012 12:53 pm  #105


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Davina wrote:

The second Hobbit movie is already filmed and I doubt the third will intervene unduly as there would be about an 18 month gap between Sherlock series anyway. Just remember that Moftiss are really good at winding an audience up. 

Forget the Hobbit thing. As far as Ben is concerned. I believe the big star to which he will hitch his international fame wagon will be the upcoming Star Trek movie. When people get a load of that, they will know his name and see his talent and look into his past works and BOOM!  I wonder if the dear boy is prepared for what's going to happen, especially in the US.

 

September 16, 2012 1:23 pm  #106


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

If he, and his agent, have any sense, which clearly he has and most likely they do too, they will be very selective about which scripts and offers to choose. Currency as an actor is hard won and easily lost. He has expressed an interest in musical theatre as well, so who knows? Sherlock the musical in the West End or on Broadway? 


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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September 16, 2012 7:12 pm  #107


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Davina wrote:

If he, and his agent, have any sense, which clearly he has and most likely they do too, they will be very selective about which scripts and offers to choose. Currency as an actor is hard won and easily lost. He has expressed an interest in musical theatre as well, so who knows? Sherlock the musical in the West End or on Broadway?   

Ben is a virtual unknown here in the States, except for the (relatively small) Sherlock fandom. Once ST comes out, people will remember him. He has an unusual name, to say the least, and we all know how talented and charismatic he is. I'm hoping for him to make a big splash here.  I've been led to believe that the US is where the acting money is, for what that's worth. If he wants stardom and financial security, leading to him having his pick of roles of all kinds, and not having to worry about his monetary future, the US would be a good place to make big inroads into those things.

 

October 7, 2012 7:25 am  #108


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

ancientsgate wrote:

Lupin wrote:

It seems highly unlikely they would have John get married since John moves out of the flat after he marries and starts a private practice. He accompanies Sherlock Holmes on several adventures afterward but the great majority of the canon is the few years before The Sign of the Four.
I could see a wedding with John combined with The Noble Bachelor so that it doesn't work out for John, the groom.

I am almost completely clueless about the ACD stories, but don't Gatiss et al make up stuff as they go along, and add in their own original ideas, at least somewhat? Is 100% of what we've seen on the BBC show directly from ACD?? (You know, except for the obvious modern tech and vehicles, etc)  You guys who are ACD authorities are talking like nothing is possible about rat wedding bow that hasn't been included in the original stories-- am I misunderstanding?

No you are absolutely correct a lot is possible that ACD never wrote.

There's lots of Moftiss ideas in there and a vast amount of cherry-picking of nods to the canon as well. Eg Scandal in Belgravia there is a mention by the equerry of the client being 'Illustrious' and Sherlock goes to Buckingham palace wearing a white sheet - In the canon story The Illustrious Client it begins with Holmes and Watson in a Turkish Baths sitting side by side both wearing white sheets - the plot of SiB is loosely based on the original- in the Canon the equerry visits Holmes. Holmes keeps a photograph in the canon, in BBC Sherlock keeps Irene's phone. Irene marries in the canon but not in the series. In BBC series Sherlock complains about not being told who the client is as having a mystery at both ends of the case and in the canon the original wording is .“I am sorry,  said Holmes. “I am accustomed to have mystery at one end of my cases, but to have it at both ends is too confusing." Mycroft is involved in the BBC series in that case but not in the canon.

ETC 

I'm definitely not an authority on canon though.


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We solve crimes, I blog about it and he forgets his pants, so I wouldn’t hold out too much hope. (Scandal in Belgravia)

I asked you for one more miracle. I asked you to stop being dead..........I heard you.(The Empty Hearse)
 

October 8, 2012 11:09 pm  #109


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

.

There's lots of Moftiss ideas in there and a vast amount of cherry-picking of nods to the canon as well. Eg Scandal in Belgravia there is a mention by the equerry of the client being 'Illustrious' and Sherlock goes to Buckingham palace wearing a white sheet - In the canon story The Illustrious Client it begins with Holmes and Watson in a Turkish Baths sitting side by side both wearing white sheets

Good Eye!  I would've never caught that.

Quick Question, when the 3 words were announced for Series 2 was their any speculation at all or were people immediately able to guess the 3(As I would guess)?

Last edited by Sherlock84 (October 9, 2012 12:22 am)


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October 14, 2012 11:14 pm  #110


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

I don't have anything to do because I'm not that well-read in the canon...
but question:
How was it handled last year? For the second season, I mean. I know they also had the three words (Woman, Hound, Fall) - but when and in what way were they given out to the public?

 

October 17, 2012 6:08 pm  #111


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

If I may...

It seems to me that, given the writers' great affection for the canon, their hints are likely to be intended to give clues for those who share their love for Doyle's stories. If we make that assumption, then the hints would probably be meant to conjure up immediate images for devoted readers, much as the hints for Season 2 did.

Thus, "rat" must surely be a reference either to "The Giant Rat of Sumatra" or "Boscombe Valley". Currently, I tend towards the former, since the reference to a rat in the latter hasn't quite the familiarity to students of the canon, I wouldn't think.

"Wedding" can only be intended to reference John Watson and Mary Morstan, and is a great choice by Moftiss, as it is sure to stir up all sorts of speculations and theories among fans (as evidenced by this thread and others).

The same goes for "bow", with even more angst-creating power. Whether this will truly be "Sherlock's" last bow has yet to be seen (and likely won't be known until well after the third season ends, if notions of a cliffhanger are to be believed).

Having gotten our interest with the hints, though, I don't think the writers are boxed into any particular canonical stories, and I expect they will create their own new spins, borrowing heavily from numerous ACD stories, as before. Here's one possible story arc that could run through the entire third series:

Episode 3.1 : "The Empty Rat Trap" (okay, I don't like that title, but that's all I could come up with off the cuff) This episode begins while Sherlock is "dead". John meets beautiful Mary Moran at a bar on Boscombe Street, she condoles with him, they fall in love and look to the future. Sherlock, having dispatched with all but one of Moriarty's assasins, finds himself in need of an "alive" ally (dear Molly just won't do), and reveals himself to John. Together, they follow the on-again/off-again trail of the final unknown assasin, finally tracking him down outside the Surface and Marine Transport Regulatory Authority in Tanzania, only to have the episode end unresolved.

Episode 2: "Moran and Moran" John's wedding date approaches, but a fresh lead develops in the final assasin case: Sherlock discovers the identity of the assasin, and that he has a daughter whom he abandoned in infancy, and who was given the name "Mary" by her adoptive parents. A conflicted John/Mary postpone the wedding, and decide to help Sherlock track down Mary's father/the final assasin. The episode ends with John & Mary's wedding, and the death of Colonel Moran.

Episode 3: "Take a Bow, Sherlock" The sudden death of Mary Watson (nee Moran) through a mysterious, fast-acting illness, send John & Sherlock in search of the mysterious Dr. Grimesly Roylott, an obscure dabbler in exotic poisons with an unsure past. The sleuthing of Sherlock/John reveals an international terror cell bent on the chemical destruction of the western world, and the uncovering of devastating details of the teenage years of Sherlock Holmes which lead to his decision to fold down his coat collars for good---or not. Will there be a Season Four?

Okay, I'm not reading back through all that for typos, so I'll ask forgiveness in advance.

Have fun!


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"Perfectly sound analysis. I was hoping you would go a little deeper."
 

October 17, 2012 6:24 pm  #112


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Tanty - So glad to have you back!

 

October 17, 2012 6:27 pm  #113


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Interesting.
My immediate response:
Firstly, I'm really liking the thought of the Reunion being soon enough for John to help with the 3rd sniper...Mrs Husdon's?
I think maybe a few of us had realised that canonically even if John did marry, it wouldn't have to last long.
But it's news to me that maybe an episode would be around a whole wedding, but it either doesn't come about or(possibly) something happens on the day or soon after.  Liking these thoughts.
Tho I personally still think the series could still work with John being married.
Incidentally, I have already discussed with somebody:  I was trying to remember what happened last time.  Did they not give us the themes 1st:  Love, Fear, Death and then the actual title, or at least which stories they were going to cover?
I also seem to think we got told pretty quickly that series 2 was going to happen...
EDIT:  I still think ' rat' may refer to a person.

Last edited by besleybean (October 17, 2012 6:38 pm)


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October 18, 2012 4:22 pm  #114


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

I thought we were fairly confident the next villain would be Moran...
But certainly the Cliff hanger could lead us to a 3rd.
Oh I am fairly certain the writers will hitch John up to a lady love of his life...tho it might be nice in the 21st century, if they didn't have to marry.
But film and TV like a good wedding.( ).


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October 18, 2012 10:24 pm  #115


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

I probably have said it before: I like the idea of "rat" referring to a person.

Nice one, Tantalus 
What still bothers me with John marrying is not that he would have to leave Bakerstreet (which I don't want at all, but maybe it would be a nice change) but that it doesn't really seem like a John-thing to do. If he marries - at least that is what I think - it would be after living together with his partner for quite some time.
Meeting a nice girl and then marrying her immediately doesn't really fit John and certainly doesn't feel very 21st century.
He has all this trust issues, I'm sure it would take a lot time for him to build up a serious relationship... look at all his short "affairs" during the seasons.
Yeah, okay, rant over. I just don't think it's going to be John's wedding.
Unless, well, the time that passed since Sherlock's "suicide" was really that long.

 

October 19, 2012 6:25 am  #116


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

But it is supposed to be 3 years.  So he could easily meet and marry in that time.
Maybe we shouldn't use the word ' marry' at all, personally I would have it removed from the English language! But living with somebody....
Incidentally, I have said since the start that I think' rat' could be a person!


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October 19, 2012 7:49 am  #117


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Lestrade is described as a rat-faced man in the canon. Just putting this out there.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

October 19, 2012 8:04 am  #118


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Davina wrote:

Lestrade is described as a rat-faced man in the canon. Just putting this out there.

Poor Rupert. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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October 19, 2012 11:07 am  #119


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Will they bring back Irene Adler or is she confirmed to have only existed in the Series 2 universe & staying away for the foreseeable future?

 

October 19, 2012 11:30 am  #120


Re: RAT. WEDDING. BOW.

Well clearly he isn't small or rat-faced but Lestrade is in the canon. In fact he's just rather gorgeous isn't he! Lol.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

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