BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Sherlock- Asperger's syndrome and sociopathy

ancientsgate · August 10, 2012 11:56 pm

Morton wrote:
Autumn clean, it's fine, it's all fine. I think we have stopped having seasons in Britain except 'cold and wet' and 'warm and dry' now.

When does dry happen? I've been watching the Olympics, and boy, can it rain there! Whew! Underwater.

One thing gets me.....the thing about body parts in the fridge....to me that is the only logical place for them....

Yup. Sherlock said as much-- where else should I have put it? Poor John and Mrs. H. Good lord. *g*

Smoggy_London_Air · August 11, 2012 1:16 am

Morton wrote:
Autumn clean, it's fine, it's all fine. I think we have stopped having seasons in Britain except 'cold and wet' and 'warm and dry' now.

I used to think that everyone saw the world the same way I did. When I realised they didn't I thought 'oh interesting' but also I came to the conclusion that my way was as good as anyone else's! One thing I'm good at is absorbing info that I find someone else forgets, not so much a canon attic more palace size but have never had to make an effort to store it. On the other hand I'll get absorbed in something hugely interesting and have no idea what day it is, I can look it up so why bother, I think.

One thing gets me.....the thing about body parts in the fridge....to me that is the only logical place for them....

Thank you I'm taking that as a compliment, re my storage system.

I'm sure a Periodic Table will help more than hinder. Good luck with your chemistry and remember the golden rule "Don't lick the spoon"

Brass Monkey weather!! Someday I'll use that phrase. Living in the Southwest US, that day is not anytime soon. XD

I've been trying to do the mind palace technique � la the Joe Riggs blog, but I have a very good memory already so I always wind up thinking, "Eh, why bother, I have it memorized already anyway." The two things it has helped me with, however, are last year's history final and memorizing the constitutional amendments. I'm the opposite. I'm very twitchy and always switching from activity to activity. I'll be reading and think, I really want to practice Mycroft . Disciplining myself in this area does not work well!

That is the only logical place. Maybe he could buy a mini-fridge for them?

It was a compliment. I always thought that was one of the best scenes in the movie. Very much a BBC Sherlock attitude as well. "You know I don't touch your things."

My last chemistry book describes acids and says they have a sour taste, "HOWEVER, ONE SHOULD NEVER TASTE ANYTHING IN THE CHEMISTRY LAB."

Morton · August 12, 2012 7:52 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
Morton wrote:
Autumn clean, it's fine, it's all fine. I think we have stopped having seasons in Britain except 'cold and wet' and 'warm and dry' now.
When does dry happen? I've been watching the Olympics, and boy, can it rain there! Whew! Underwater.

One thing gets me.....the thing about body parts in the fridge....to me that is the only logical place for them....
Yup. Sherlock said as much-- where else should I have put it? Poor John and Mrs. H. Good lord. *g*

Oh yeah, dry and sunny, blink and you miss it.
Wimbledon is always good for rain and so is televised cricket.

Mm actually yeah thinking about it some people could find it gross, I forgot, I had a flatmate once when I wanted to reduce a sheep's head to the skull for anatomical reference. She insisted on it being kept outside until she went out for the day and I could do the job in the shared kitchen. It stank to high heaven by then. I had all the windows open and still the smell was enough to make me gag.

Morton · August 12, 2012 8:11 pm

Smoggy_London_Air wrote:
Morton wrote:
Autumn clean, it's fine, it's all fine. I think we have stopped having seasons in Britain except 'cold and wet' and 'warm and dry' now.

I used to think that everyone saw the world the same way I did. When I realised they didn't I thought 'oh interesting' but also I came to the conclusion that my way was as good as anyone else's! One thing I'm good at is absorbing info that I find someone else forgets, not so much a canon attic more palace size but have never had to make an effort to store it. On the other hand I'll get absorbed in something hugely interesting and have no idea what day it is, I can look it up so why bother, I think.

One thing gets me.....the thing about body parts in the fridge....to me that is the only logical place for them....

Thank you I'm taking that as a compliment, re my storage system.

I'm sure a Periodic Table will help more than hinder. Good luck with your chemistry and remember the golden rule "Don't lick the spoon"
Brass Monkey weather!! Someday I'll use that phrase. Living in the Southwest US, that day is not anytime soon. XD

I've been trying to do the mind palace technique � la the Joe Riggs blog, but I have a very good memory already so I always wind up thinking, "Eh, why bother, I have it memorized already anyway." The two things it has helped me with, however, are last year's history final and memorizing the constitutional amendments. I'm the opposite. I'm very twitchy and always switching from activity to activity. I'll be reading and think, I really want to practice Mycroft . Disciplining myself in this area does not work well!

That is the only logical place. Maybe he could buy a mini-fridge for them?

It was a compliment. I always thought that was one of the best scenes in the movie. Very much a BBC Sherlock attitude as well. "You know I don't touch your things."

My last chemistry book describes acids and says they have a sour taste, "HOWEVER, ONE SHOULD NEVER TASTE ANYTHING IN THE CHEMISTRY LAB."

Thanks

I had a look at that technique or similar. Not my cup of tea either when I've got the item in my head already.

I'm sure there is room in the 221B kitchen for a mini-fridge, good shout.

I find things sink in more on coming across them for the first time, especially if I'm not trying to remember it and if it is the bare essentials, but if I have to concentrate and learn whatever it is then I don't do so well.

I'm getting a violin soon and 'Mycroft' would be a great name for it.

Sherlock Holmes · August 13, 2012 8:05 pm

Haha Mycroft is an awesome name for your violin...come to think of it, I can't believe I haven't given mine a name yet.

Hm...new idea for a topic coming up....

Sam · September 7, 2012 8:30 pm

Thank you for sharing that article! I believed Sherlock when he said he was a sociopath. The thing that made me believe this also was that sociopaths can form deep connections with a select few people. To me, it would still make sense that Sherlock "sacrificed" himself for his friends even though the article says different. Having said that, the article has shed light on the subject for me and I do see Aspergers being much what he has. I like that John seems to know this but I hope they bring it up more in Season 3.

Someone mentioned (sorry, forgot who) that Sherlock could be telling people he is a sociopath because of the stigma of Asperger's. He may want people to fear him instead so he just let's people believe that. If this is the case, then Moffat and Gatiss could have actually done their research and having John point out to the audience that it is actually Asperger's even if it was very brief. Again, I hope they shed more light on this in Season 3, even if brief again. John also says Sherlock is the most "human" person he's ever known (*tear*), which I can see exactly what he means.

Arya · September 7, 2012 11:45 pm

Sam wrote:
Someone mentioned (sorry, forgot who) that Sherlock could be telling people he is a sociopath because of the stigma of Asperger's. He may want people to fear him instead so he just let's people believe that.

Also, what if he had convinced himself that he was a sociopath, because he doesn't want to feel or care about anything? He's tried to make himself into some sort of deducing machine without any 'contaminants', and not wanting to feel anything/being afraid of feeling anything fits in with the more childish aspects of his character.

Sherlock Holmes · September 12, 2012 8:11 am

Arya wrote:
Sam wrote:
Someone mentioned (sorry, forgot who) that Sherlock could be telling people he is a sociopath because of the stigma of Asperger's. He may want people to fear him instead so he just let's people believe that.
Also, what if he had convinced himself that he was a sociopath, because he doesn't want to feel or care about anything? He's tried to make himself into some sort of deducing machine without any 'contaminants', and not wanting to feel anything/being afraid of feeling anything fits in with the more childish aspects of his character.

That's so true. He likes to perpetuate his own myth of himself as a calculating machine with no heart when, we all know that's not quite true!

Morton · September 22, 2012 10:28 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Arya wrote:
Sam wrote:
Someone mentioned (sorry, forgot who) that Sherlock could be telling people he is a sociopath because of the stigma of Asperger's. He may want people to fear him instead so he just let's people believe that.
Also, what if he had convinced himself that he was a sociopath, because he doesn't want to feel or care about anything? He's tried to make himself into some sort of deducing machine without any 'contaminants', and not wanting to feel anything/being afraid of feeling anything fits in with the more childish aspects of his character.
That's so true. He likes to perpetuate his own myth of himself as a calculating machine with no heart when, we all know that's not quite true!

I think there area few layers as to why.

Mycroft also vaunts logic (reasoning ) over emotion ( caring ) "Caring is not an advantage, Sherlock". Sherlock asks Mycroft about why they are both like they are. Scandal in Belgravia . but it isn't made clear if it is by genetic makeup or through them being a product of their childhood environment,.(nature v nurture).

In his line of work he deals mainly with evidence, facts and logic and it is harder from many people to think straight when they feel all emotional. He needs logic not emotion in his line of work and he throws all his brain cells at a puzzle.

My current side theory is that he has a great capacity for feeling intensely which can maybe get a bit too much for him sometimes.

MaggieM · September 25, 2012 2:35 am

Interesting, but-

I think Sherlock is neither a sociopath nor has Asperger's. I think he is a classic example of "the gifted child". His level of intelligence alone is more than enough to separate him from others. He's probably had a whole string of Donovans in his life before.

He and Mycroft are apparently from an upper-class family, maybe even "the ruling class" not known for being touchy-feely anyway (Doesn't Mycroft refer to Her Majesty as "a dear old friend"). "How it upset Mummy.." The Holmes Boys" phrases and I imagine two boys alone in a big drafty house a lot. They learned to stow away their feelings--doesn't mean they don't have them.

Seems to me Sherlock was the rebel in the family, craving the excitement and adventure a detective's work would involve rather than end up walled in at Oxford, but disciplined himself to control his emotions more than others as not to interfere with his reasoning-yet he gets loud, angry and passionate about a lot of things, no?

kazza474 · September 25, 2012 2:59 am

MaggieM wrote:
I think Sherlock is neither a sociopath nor has Asperger's. I think he is a classic example of "the gifted child". His level of intelligence alone is more than enough to separate him from others. He's probably had a whole string of Donovans in his life before.

He and Mycroft are apparently from an upper-class family, maybe even "the ruling class" not known for being touchy-feely anyway (Doesn't Mycroft refer to Her Majesty as "a dear old friend"). "How it upset Mummy.." The Holmes Boys" phrases and I imagine two boys alone in a big drafty house a lot. They learned to stow away their feelings--doesn't mean they don't have them.

Seems to me Sherlock was the rebel in the family, craving the excitement and adventure a detective's work would involve rather than end up walled in at Oxford, but disciplined himself to control his emotions more than others as not to interfere with his reasoning-yet he gets loud, angry and passionate about a lot of things, no?

To repeat what another member (Wholocked) posted to me yesterday " I think I may love you Maggie"!
The writers put a throw away line in about 'his Aspergers' because people have long wondered if that was how to explain Holmes' behaviour in the canon. Suddenly he's been diagnosed as a definite candidate!

Yes, this is another example of labelling going overboard.
I think you've summed him up well & he sounds like a perfectly normal gifted child to me.

Welcome to the forum.

MaggieM · September 25, 2012 3:08 am

and glad to be here.

Harriet · September 25, 2012 9:33 am

kazza474 wrote:
... & he sounds like a perfectly normal gifted child to me.

.. which is no label at all, nah

kazza474 · September 25, 2012 9:48 am

Harriet wrote:
kazza474 wrote:
... & he sounds like a perfectly normal gifted child to me.
.. which is no label at all, nah

I'd call it more a description.
Certainly doesn't have a diagnosis attached, which is what I mean by a 'label'.

Harriet · September 25, 2012 9:50 am

oh I know many people who have gifted children without diagnosis
only the parents seem to see the obvious facts

but I know what you mean...

Last edited by Harriet (September 25, 2012 9:52 am)

Harriet · September 25, 2012 10:07 am

However, now that I jumped into it, I'd like to state that there exist of course also good reasons to assume Asperger or Johnlock or whatever...
I used to ponder a lot about these questions. Of course it is interesting because it might open the eyes to things not seen so clearly before and question pre-assumptions of all kinds.
At the moment I think that this is what makes the films so great:
You can never tell for sure, and this is a great challenge to stereotyping / labelling of any kind.
This is what makes Sherlock for me go beyond entertainment. It's art.

Sherlock Holmes · September 25, 2012 11:19 am

And this is why we can spend many hours discussing it, because these things are not presented to us as facts...they're open for interpretation and analysis, which is fun!

Maggie, I really enjoyed your description of Sherlock, that seems to make a lot of sense.

Sam · September 25, 2012 7:05 pm

Touché, Maggie.

besleybean · October 5, 2012 5:48 pm

I certainly think Sherlock is gifted.
He also describes HIMSELF as a high functioning sociopath, so I accept that.
This just means he thinks/feels/behaves differently to the majority and a lot of the time, I am with him!

Last edited by besleybean (October 5, 2012 6:03 pm)

Harriet · October 5, 2012 5:54 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
And this is why we can spend many hours discussing it, because these things are not presented to us as facts...

All we have as a fact is a doctor mentioning Sherlock's Asperger, after quite some time of closer observation.
scnr

Last edited by Harriet (October 5, 2012 7:01 pm)