BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Parade's End

SusiGo · September 14, 2012 9:06 pm

I don't but I guess I'll have to invent one. And I'll take the crash wagon as long as it has a computer on board. Don't want to miss any new pics in this thread.

Sammy · September 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Wow! That episode was reaaally good.
Now there's only one left.. sadly.
That scene with Christopher and Sylvia in the bedroom...

In all the Rogor Allam and Benedict scenes I have to think of Martin and Douglas.
Then I picture them having the conversation and I can't take them serious, hehe...

Mattlocked · September 14, 2012 9:19 pm

Just watched the first 30 minutes.. Need subtitles...
Will take the second half tomorrow.

SusiGo · September 14, 2012 9:58 pm

Sammy wrote:
In all the Rogor Allam and Benedict scenes I have to think of Martin and Douglas.
Then I picture them having the conversation and I can't take them serious, hehe...

Yes, I know the problem. But they need an Arthur. Maybe Potty Perowne?

sherlockedkt · September 14, 2012 10:13 pm

I'm gonna have to download this episode immediately. Can't get those pics out of my head...

Sammy · September 15, 2012 1:37 pm

In my opinion the best scene from last night's episode ;):

I'm torn between liking Sylvia and not liking her. I can't believe how she always blames Christopher although she's the one who has made mistakes. Then again, in that scene I caught myself rooting for Christopher and Sylvia... Either way, the actress is GREAT.

SusiGo · September 15, 2012 2:11 pm

Your choice doesn't surprise me in the least, Sammy. Although I think that she's more likable than in the books. When reading it I never had the wish for them to come together again, I sometimes even hated her for causing Christopher so much suffering. There is one passage in which she is compared with Valentine and described as a totally destructive person. Maybe it's due to the script or the excellent work of Rebecca Hall that in the series that she sometimes invites empathy or pity. And now back to the iPlayer.

Last edited by SusiGo (September 15, 2012 2:12 pm)

sherlockedkt · September 15, 2012 2:16 pm

I might be the only one but I like Sylvia. I mean obviously she's a horrible beyotch, but I think she has her reasons and is just terribly misguided and like she said, she's been broken by Christopher's refusal to react to anything she does. Of course that's no excuse for the stunts she's pulled, but I think she actually does care about him and just doesn't know how to fix what's been broken for so long. I don't really care that much for Valentine. She just irritates me I guess. Too wide-eyed and naive and idealistic. I wish Christopher and Sylvia would work it out and stick together.

Last edited by sherlockedkt (September 15, 2012 2:16 pm)

Mattlocked · September 15, 2012 2:30 pm

I like Sylvia, too. As Susi said, maybe it's the way of Rebecca's acting. One can often see her desperation and she often is sarcastic just because she is terribly sad and bored.
As I stick to book 1 so far, I don't know why there is obviously a big difference between the Sylvia in the film and in the book. Will be interesting to find out. One day. When I have time.

Last edited by Mattlocked (September 15, 2012 2:30 pm)

SusiGo · September 15, 2012 3:15 pm

My problem with Sylvia is that everything she does seems to be premeditated and planned. We don't really know why she married him in the first place but couldn't it have been in order to find a suitable father for her child? IMO this is indicated by the sex scene in the train in part 1. And then the admittedly beautiful filmed and acted bedroom scene - remember she told Potty before that her door wouldn't be locked and that he was free to come and see what good it would do him. From the way she was laughing after Christopher threw him out and got arrested for this you might believe that she did it only in order to create confusion and have fun. She simply cannot accept or understand his character and his principles and tries to get him back by the only means open to her - seduction and scheming. When he tries to tell her about his experience in the camp she doesn't want to listen and threatens to scream.
They are two people that are so fundamentally different from each other that I can't see them living together in peace for more than two minutes. Of course Christopher's principles and ethics at times quite hard to live with but he is essentially a good man. And when she says that he destroys her with his forbearance she turns a positive trait of character into something negative. Oh, this has become quite long because I really love the book and the film. Here's some final quote from Christopher's POV:

"… she and Sylvia were the only two human beings he had met for years whom he could respect: the one for sheer efficiency in killing; the other for having the constructive desire and knowing how to set about it. Kill or cure! The two functions of man. If you wanted something killed you'd go to Sylvia Tietjens in the sure faith that she would kill it: emotion, hope, ideal; kill it quick and sure. If you wanted something kept alive you'd go to Valentine: she'd find something to do for it … The two types of mind: remorseless enemy, sure screen, dagger … sheath!"

Mattlocked · September 15, 2012 3:32 pm

Oh, I admit I only saw the bedroom scene so far because it's been posted here, and not the things "around", yet.

I fully agree that they are too different to stay together in peace. And I think, too, that she married him because she needed a father for her son.
Still I don't want to blame her (,yet). I know what it's like when you struggle and fight and all you can change is "the expression on [his - in this case my former boyfriend's] face".

sherlockedkt · September 15, 2012 9:01 pm

Oh yeah, I totally think she hooked up with Chrissie on the train because she knew she was pregnant and wanted a guy to marry so she wouldn't be stigmatized for being pregnant by a married man. I know she's made some bad choices, but I think she's far more real than Valentine. Maybe she and Christopher aren't perfect for one another, but they are married, and I want to see them make it work. It will take a lot more vulnerability on her part and some emotion on his part but I think they are both capable. It's a matter of whether they will make themselves do it.

I just started reading the book (on page 50 or so) so I'm interested to see how it's different.

Davina · September 16, 2012 3:15 pm

She needed to marry him because the stigma was not having a child by a married man but having a child out of wedlock I.e. as an unmarried mother. You should not. Underestimate the stigma the was then for such a woman in such a situation. There were some excellent scenes in this. Certainly Sylvia has little, if any, understanding of what the war is like for Christopher, nor does she actually want to know. The scene with the General (Roger Allam) was beautifully played I thought. In a way Sylvia has broken his heart too.

The comic interludes were brilliant and were a fantastic contrast to the horrors of the war. Also brought to the fore is the absolute incompetence of command and the French railways. The conflict with the M.P.s really showed the strength of Christopher's morals and his reaction is partially explained by his own guilt over the death of the Welsh orderly who, if he had agreed to his leave of absence, would have not been killed.

An episode of contrasts. The bedroom scene was also beautifully acted and the timing, particularly of the farcical elements was spot on.

If only my I-player wouldn't keep freezing I would be totally happy!!

SusiGo · September 16, 2012 4:32 pm

I also like the scene with the horses in which he gets angry because the German horse is not treated the way it should be. Unfortunately for him his principles once again clash with the views of his colleagues or superiors leading to negative consequences for himself. Christopher's love for animals, especially horses, is a strong motive in the books and it's great that they kept it in the series.

Mattlocked · September 16, 2012 5:01 pm

Just watched the last 30 minutes of episode 4 and... I really have problems to understand, even when using the subtitles.
I think it maybe the kind of vocabulary I'm not used to. Makes it hard to follow all those conversations between the men...

Davina · September 16, 2012 6:00 pm

If it was with the young men in Christopher's platoon, one of whom dies, it is because thy are speaking with strong Welsh accents. There are some other regional accents too, I think. I will watch it again and see if I can help you out.. Can you be specific as to which scenes?

SusiGo · September 16, 2012 6:07 pm

Mattlocked, they often talk shop about details of military administration. The vocabulary is very specific.

Davina, good of you to explain about the accents. Regional accents are always hard to understand for non-native speakers (and sometimes even for native speakers). We have e.g. our Bavarians.

Davina · September 16, 2012 6:12 pm

I can try to do a transcript of the tricky parts if anyone wants me to. The military vocabulary is so specific many here will not really understand it either. With the Welsh it is not just accent but word order and additions/grammar that are different too.

Last edited by Davina (September 16, 2012 6:14 pm)

Mattlocked · September 16, 2012 9:41 pm

Thank you for the kind offer. At the moment I think I don't even survey the whole thing - so you'd have to translate everything by now.
I'd love to come back to you later.

tobeornot221b · September 17, 2012 3:51 am

The simplest solution: We will be waiting for German TV to buy PE and dub it. They are great at the latter...